Instruction
The most difficult swing fix to make without an instructor
People often ask if it bothers me when I see members on the range working on their golf swing without my help — or anyone else’s for that matter. My job is to be an employee first, a friend second and an instructor third when it comes to my interaction with club members. Thus, I never “walk the line” in an effort to solicit lessons.
I talk to the members about all sorts of things, but I’ve learned that if they really want my help they will ask for it. That’s why I have never solicited lessons and I never will. The range is not a used car lot; it’s a practice facility — a place to relax and work on your game.
There is one swing flaw, however, that makes me want to scream at the top of my lungs so that the affected golfers will stop and take notice. It’s a shut clubface at the top of the backswing — the one where the grooves of the clubface are pointed toward the sky, or “getting a sunburn” as I call it.
It’s one of the hardest swing flaws to fix without an instructor because so few golfers are even aware of the flaw — and it causes the ball to go everywhere!
Photo 1
Above: Here is a perfect example of a shut face at the top. The clubface is pointing toward the sky.
Pushes, pulls, slices, and hooks — those are just a few of the shots that a shut clubface at the top of your swing can cause. It all depends on how you manipulate the face relative to the path on the way down.
Photo 1 shows a golfer whose clubface is shut at the top. I’ve found that average players who have a shut clubface at the top also tend to have a shut clubface on the way down. Let’s take a look to see what this player does at the halfway down position below in Photo 2.
Photo 2
Yes, the face is turned down a touch in this belt-high condition, but will it continue to be an issue at impact or did this player “repair” it during impact?
Photo 3
Photo 3 shows this player’s impact position. I have put this player’s target line on the screen as well as his face angle at impact so you can see what his face is doing at the point of contact. He has the face -9.0 degrees left of the target (shown by the red arrow), which makes the ball mostly begin in that direction as you can see by the ball flight line.
The shut clubface position at the top exacerbated the probability that the face was going to be shut at impact. Obviously, there are many players who play from this condition and do extremely well. Dustin Johnson has won eight PGA Tour events with a very shut clubface, but he has a swing that works with that position. It’s very hard to play with a shut clubface if you don’t know that you are shut at the top, during delivery, and/or at impact. So if you are shut and want to change, what can you do to alleviate this issue?
First you must find out why your face is shut at the top of your backswing. Three popular reasons include:
- A faulty grip — one that is too strong — at address.
- Losing the cup of your stronger left hand* at the top, so when the wrist flattens the face is shut.
- An improper left wrist position* at the top of the backswing. When it bows the club will tend to close.
Once you have figured out why your clubface is shut, you can get to work on fixing this flaw. Here’s a few things to try, and they correspond with reasons 1, 2 and 3 above.
- Weaken your grip.
- Try keeping a slight cup in your left wrist* throughout the backswing.
- Practice in a mirror while swinging a club with only one hand. Try both your left and right hands. This drill will help you to feel what you are doing to shut the face and what hand is most likely the culprit.
Note: Each fix is for a right-handed golfer. If you’re a left-handed golfer, simply reverse the body part mentioned (left wrist becomes right wrist, etc.).
What fix is the best? I let the student decide, because it can be any of the three. I usually find that most people cannot cup their wrist enough at the top, so I have to slightly alter their grip as well as their top wrist condition so the face is square and the left wrist isn’t as flat at the top.
Another fix for a shut clubface is to have a golfer “hold off” his release, but I would only recommend it if he is on the course and is imploding. I’d tell him as a caddy to aim left and hang on so he could have a repeating ball flight until he could get to the range. His shots might go 50 yards right, they won’t go both ways!
Take the time to audit your grip, wrist and face condition at the top. Remember, the key is for the face to be at a 45-degree angle at the top of the backswing and based on your grip sometimes you will NOT have a flat left wrist at the top as the instructional books say. If you have a neutral grip, then you can have a flat left wrist and a square face, but if you have a stronger grip and you flatten the wrist at the top, it will be shut. Death!
Photo 4
Photo 4 shows a square face at the top — not toe down, and not a “sunburned” face either. Use your mirror and a make a few practice swings. You’ll get the hang of it in no time.
There may be no more painful affliction in golf than the “yips” – those uncontrollable and maddening little nervous twitches that prevent you from making a decent stroke on short putts. If you’ve never had them, consider yourself very fortunate (or possibly just very young). But I can assure you that when your most treacherous and feared golf shot is not the 195 yard approach over water with a quartering headwind…not the extra tight fairway with water left and sand right…not the soft bunker shot to a downhill pin with water on the other side…No, when your most feared shot is the remaining 2- 4-foot putt after hitting a great approach, recovery or lag putt, it makes the game almost painful.
And I’ve been fighting the yips (again) for a while now. It’s a recurring nightmare that has haunted me most of my adult life. I even had the yips when I was in my 20s, but I’ve beat them into submission off and on most of my adult life. But just recently, that nasty virus came to life once again. My lag putting has been very good, but when I get over one of those “you should make this” length putts, the entire nervous system seems to go haywire. I make great practice strokes, and then the most pitiful short-stroke or jab at the ball you can imagine. Sheesh.
But I’m a traditionalist, and do not look toward the long putter, belly putter, cross-hand, claw or other variation as the solution. My approach is to beat those damn yips into submission some other way. Here’s what I’m doing that is working pretty well, and I offer it to all of you who might have a similar affliction on the greens.
When you are over a short putt, forget the practice strokes…you want your natural eye-hand coordination to be unhindered by mechanics. Address your putt and take a good look at the hole, and back to the putter to ensure good alignment. Lighten your right hand grip on the putter and make sure that only the fingertips are in contact with the grip, to prevent you from getting to tight.
Then, take a long, long look at the hole to fill your entire mind and senses with the target. When you bring your head/eyes back to the ball, try to make a smooth, immediate move right into your backstroke — not even a second pause — and then let your hands and putter track right back together right back to where you were looking — the HOLE! Seeing the putter make contact with the ball, preferably even the forward edge of the ball – the side near the hole.
For me, this is working, but I am asking all of you to chime in with your own “home remedies” for the most aggravating and senseless of all golf maladies. It never hurts to have more to fall back on!
Over the last couple of decades, golf has become much more science-based. We measure swing speed, smash factor, angle of attack, strokes gained, and many other metrics that can really help golfers improve. But I often wonder if the advancement of golf’s “hard” sciences comes at the expense of the “soft” sciences.
Take, for example, golf instruction. Good golf instruction requires understanding swing mechanics and ball flight. But let’s take that as a given for PGA instructors. The other factors that make an instructor effective can be evaluated by social science, rather than launch monitors.
If you are a recreational golfer looking for a golf instructor, here are my top three points to consider.
1. Cultural mindset
What is “cultural mindset? To social scientists, it means whether a culture of genius or a culture of learning exists. In a golf instruction context, that may mean whether the teacher communicates a message that golf ability is something innate (you either have it or you don’t), or whether golf ability is something that can be learned. You want the latter!
It may sound obvious to suggest that you find a golf instructor who thinks you can improve, but my research suggests that it isn’t a given. In a large sample study of golf instructors, I found that when it came to recreational golfers, there was a wide range of belief systems. Some instructors strongly believed recreational golfers could improve through lessons. while others strongly believed they could not. And those beliefs manifested in the instructor’s feedback given to a student and the culture created for players.
2. Coping and self-modeling can beat role-modeling
Swing analysis technology is often preloaded with swings of PGA and LPGA Tour players. The swings of elite players are intended to be used for comparative purposes with golfers taking lessons. What social science tells us is that for novice and non-expert golfers, comparing swings to tour professionals can have the opposite effect of that intended. If you fit into the novice or non-expert category of golfer, you will learn more and be more motivated to change if you see yourself making a ‘better’ swing (self-modeling) or seeing your swing compared to a similar other (a coping model). Stay away from instructors who want to compare your swing with that of a tour player.
3. Learning theory basics
It is not a sexy selling point, but learning is a process, and that process is incremental – particularly for recreational adult players. Social science helps us understand this element of golf instruction. A good instructor will take learning slowly. He or she will give you just about enough information that challenges you, but is still manageable. The artful instructor will take time to decide what that one or two learning points are before jumping in to make full-scale swing changes. If the instructor moves too fast, you will probably leave the lesson with an arm’s length of swing thoughts and not really know which to focus on.
As an instructor, I develop a priority list of changes I want to make in a player’s technique. We then patiently and gradually work through that list. Beware of instructors who give you more than you can chew.
So if you are in the market for golf instruction, I encourage you to look beyond the X’s and O’s to find the right match!
Most pros take months, even years, to win their first tournament. Lottie Woad needed exactly four days.
The 21-year-old from Surrey shot 21-under 267 at Dundonald Links to win the ISPS Handa Women’s Scottish Open by three shots — in her very first event as a professional. She’s only the third player in LPGA history to accomplish this feat, joining Rose Zhang (2023) and Beverly Hanson (1951).
But here’s what caught my attention as a coach: Woad didn’t win through miraculous putting or bombing 300-yard drives. She won through relentless precision and unshakeable composure. After watching her performance unfold, I’m convinced every golfer — from weekend warriors to scratch players — can steal pages from her playbook.
Precision Beats Power (And It’s Not Even Close)
Forget the driving contests. Woad proved that finding greens matters more than finding distance.
What Woad did:
• Hit it straight, hit it solid, give yourself chances
• Aimed for the fat parts of greens instead of chasing pins
• Let her putting do the talking after hitting safe targets
• As she said, “Everyone was chasing me today, and managed to maintain the lead and played really nicely down the stretch and hit a lot of good shots”
Why most golfers mess this up:
• They see a pin tucked behind a bunker and grab one more club to “go right at it”
• Distance becomes more important than accuracy
• They try to be heroic instead of smart
ACTION ITEM: For your next 10 rounds, aim for the center of every green regardless of pin position. Track your greens in regulation and watch your scores drop before your swing changes.
The Putter That Stayed Cool Under Fire
Woad started the final round two shots clear and immediately applied pressure with birdies at the 2nd and 3rd holes. When South Korea’s Hyo Joo Kim mounted a charge and reached 20-under with a birdie at the 14th, Woad didn’t panic.
How she responded to pressure:
• Fired back with consecutive birdies at the 13th and 14th
• Watched Kim stumble with back-to-back bogeys
• Capped it with her fifth birdie of the day at the par-5 18th
• Stayed patient when others pressed, pressed when others cracked
What amateurs do wrong:
• Get conservative when they should be aggressive
• Try to force magic when steady play would win
• Panic when someone else makes a move
ACTION ITEM: Practice your 3-6 foot putts for 15 minutes after every range session. Woad’s putting wasn’t spectacular—it was reliable. Make the putts you should make.
Course Management 101: Play Your Game, Not the Course’s Game
Woad admitted she couldn’t see many scoreboards during the final round, but it didn’t matter. She stuck to her game plan regardless of what others were doing.
Her mental approach:
• Focused on her process, not the competition
• Drew on past pressure situations (Augusta National Women’s Amateur win)
• As she said, “That was the biggest tournament I played in at the time and was kind of my big win. So definitely felt the pressure of it more there, and I felt like all those experiences helped me with this”
Her physical execution:
• 270-yard drives (nothing flashy)
• Methodical iron play
• Steady putting
• Everything effective, nothing spectacular
ACTION ITEM: Create a yardage book for your home course. Know your distances to every pin, every hazard, every landing area. Stick to your plan no matter what your playing partners are doing.
Mental Toughness Isn’t Born, It’s Built
The most impressive part of Woad’s win? She genuinely didn’t expect it: “I definitely wasn’t expecting to win my first event as a pro, but I knew I was playing well, and I was hoping to contend.”
Her winning mindset:
• Didn’t put winning pressure on herself
• Focused on playing well and contending
• Made winning a byproduct of a good process
• Built confidence through recent experiences:
- Won the Women’s Irish Open as an amateur
- Missed a playoff by one shot at the Evian Championship
- Each experience prepared her for the next
What this means for you:
• Stop trying to shoot career rounds every time you tee up
• Focus on executing your pre-shot routine
• Commit to every shot
• Stay present in the moment
ACTION ITEM: Before each round, set process goals instead of score goals. Example: “I will take three practice swings before every shot” or “I will pick a specific target for every shot.” Let your score be the result, not the focus.
The Real Lesson
Woad collected $300,000 for her first professional victory, but the real prize was proving that fundamentals still work at golf’s highest level. She didn’t reinvent the game — she simply executed the basics better than everyone else that week.
The fundamentals that won:
• Hit more fairways
• Find more greens
• Make the putts you should make
• Stay patient under pressure
That’s something every golfer can do, regardless of handicap. Lottie Woad just showed us it’s still the winning formula.
FINAL ACTION ITEM: Pick one of the four action items above and commit to it for the next month. Master one fundamental before moving to the next. That’s how champions are built.
PGA Professional Brendon Elliott is an award-winning coach and golf writer. You can check out his writing work and learn more about him by visiting BEAGOLFER.golf and OneMoreRollGolf.com. Also, check out “The Starter” on RG.org each Monday.
Editor’s note: Brendon shares his nearly 30 years of experience in the game with GolfWRX readers through his ongoing tip series. He looks forward to providing valuable insights and advice to help golfers improve their game. Stay tuned for more Tips!
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Bill
Dec 10, 2016 at 12:00 pm
I play wedges through nine iron with a shut club face…so accurate. Eight and lower, I open it.
Brian
Oct 10, 2015 at 10:52 pm
Tom,
This is one of the few articles I have bookmarked because it was one of the most helpful I have ever read for my swing. I do have a question for you:
I have had a problem with losing balls to the left on bad hits and it was because I would come over the top “randomly.” It took me a while to find out why (I do not live near a credible professional). After finding this article and and videos of my swing I self diagnosed my problem as an shut clubface at the top of my swing and my very initial move on my downswing was “higher” than my plane on my backswing.
In order to correct this I have made a more conscious effort to turn my club in the backswing and then a focus on bringing the butt of the club back down on the same path. Since making that correction, I have not lost balls to the left, been more consistently straight, but my elbow has started hurting after rounds or sessions on the driving range. There was no problem until this correction but now I am stuck, I have a better swing but it seems to be hurting my elbow. Does that sound correct or is it extremely coincidental? Any ideas on how to move forward?
Thanks!
Josh
Jan 28, 2015 at 10:09 pm
Tom,
What’s the deal if you have a neutral grip, slight cup at the top and a slightly shut face? Still think weakening the grip would work?
Josh
Dec 21, 2014 at 6:19 pm
Click Here!
Craig
Dec 13, 2014 at 8:44 pm
Tom, I know I am late to the party but I would really appreciate it if you could help me. I have had a shut face at the top for a very long time. I’m a 5-7 handicap and I’ve noticed in many videos I have that it is already shut when parallel to the ground in takeaway. Could this lead to inconsistent contact on the heel or toe (right now its mostly heel) on my misses? What can I do?? Thanks Tom!
Jeffcb
Nov 30, 2014 at 10:52 am
An interesting article Tom. It most definitely depends on the individual for sure. I was told that Dustin has the perfect release for his swing. Makes sense given his ability. I was taught/ told that what a closed clubface as most describe it is actually pretty square to the plane and that square is actually 90 degrees open. It seems more logical to me if you trace those positions back to the impact position. Many ways to skin a cat but yes, a tough thing to change for sure.
Tony
Nov 26, 2014 at 5:45 pm
Tom. Great article. I tend to shut the clubface at the top as well as the pointing the club across the line. As much as I try not to, I tend to start the takeaway with my hands by bowing the left wrist which pulls the club inside. Any advice on what I should concentrate on to overcome this?
Bagger
Nov 26, 2014 at 3:35 pm
So would you rather see amateurs have an open face rather than closed? I get that square is the goal but if there was going to be a flaw, would you rather it be an open face or closed face?
TheFightingEdFioris
Dec 3, 2014 at 1:08 pm
Surely, he’d rather see it open. Open clubface is one step closer to a draw. Closed is one step closer to that ugly, low, pull-slice.
Jared
Nov 20, 2014 at 7:19 am
Interesting this article is published as I am dealing with the same issue. I can slice it, hook it, hit off the toe, ground it, etc… Got frustrated and went in the clubhouse yesterday and asked the assistant pro what I was doing wrong. He looked at my swing and said clubface was closed at the top. We then worked on opening it up and doing 9 to 3’s for a while. Took me some time to feel comfortable with it, then I started hitting flush and couldn’t believe how much easier it was to hit, ball flight, contact, everything improved. Wish I would have known this sooner. I’m excited to practice, but alas, the season is about done.
Tom Stickney
Nov 21, 2014 at 12:13 am
Thanks j.
Chris
Nov 21, 2014 at 8:31 pm
Tom —
My backswing has gotten too long so that I go past parallel. I’ve lost sense of where the clubface is at the top… and I’ve been missing both ways.
Can you provide me with some thoughts to help tighten my backswing back up, so that I can get back to feeling where I am at the top of my swing?
Thanks!
Tom Stickney
Nov 22, 2014 at 2:21 am
Chris– check the angle of your rt arm at the top. If it’s less than 90 degrees then you’re in trouble.
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Magnus Viken
Nov 20, 2014 at 6:25 am
Hi Tom, Great article!
I´m just curious, what if the problem was the other way around? Your club face would point straight down att the top of your back swing, in my opinion could that be “the same problem” but your cup at the top will be to concave? Will this make the ball go way right? This happen to me some times out of the blue and think my grip is pretty neutral. Actually my club head points about 45 deg as it suppose? but i still hit a few shots like this when i miss.
It would be great to hear your point of view on this. My hcp is 0 (swedish) and on a bad day i can shoot almost 80 on my home course but on a good one I’m down to -5 or something. I think this is to big of a gap.
Best regards Magnus
Tom Stickney
Nov 21, 2014 at 12:14 am
Magnus…toe down is an even harder position to play from.
Rick Fehr
Nov 19, 2014 at 11:44 am
I won tournaments at every level (except a Major) from a shut clubface position at the top with a relatively weak grip. I never intended to do this but feel that it can actually make proper impact dynamics far more repeatable than needing to “release” the hands. All that was necessary was to turn the body through and the clubface was where it needed to be. Fewer moving parts, etc. Then I decided (because so many said the position was “wrong”) to employ the services of a Golf Digest Top 50 instructor who insisted that I fix my backswing and clubface position at the top. Six months of hard work and my backswing looked like Hogan’s. It destroyed my game. All I needed from an instructor was to tell me that many great players have played from that position at the top. All I needed from that “expert” was to let me know that they all played predominantly from left-to-right.
Tom, I appreciate where you’re coming from and am aware of the hazards of an extreme clubface position at the top. That being said, all that really matters is where the clubface is delivered at impact. The Moment of Truth is not six feet away from the ball. I’m sure you agree.
Tom Stickney
Nov 19, 2014 at 2:12 pm
Could not agree more for the professional player. It’s not about aesthetics but function at that level for sure. I’d never change Dustin.
other paul
Nov 19, 2014 at 1:24 am
Playing a neutral grip, I just do a few back swings in front of a mirror once in a while. If things dont look right I make some back swings until I got it and then practice the adjustment for a bit. Onto the next thing. Grip mistakes feel easier to make then this.
Tom Stickney
Nov 19, 2014 at 2:12 pm
Agree
SAM
Nov 18, 2014 at 2:13 pm
Really impressive that you’ve answered all these comments Tom.
tom stickney
Nov 18, 2014 at 3:29 pm
Thanks Sam…if you are nice enough to read my articles and write a sensible comment, I will respond in kind.
Daniel
Nov 18, 2014 at 3:35 am
What about excessive Right forearm rotation in the backswing causing this?
Tom Stickney
Nov 18, 2014 at 10:18 am
Could for sure
Mike
Nov 17, 2014 at 8:55 pm
Tom, what about Dustin Johnson and Ryan Palmer and so many other great pros? My wrist and club head looks just like Dustin Johnson at the top and I hit the ball solid.
Jack
Nov 17, 2014 at 10:43 pm
Then you’re just fine! Why fix something that’s not broke.
Tom Stickney
Nov 17, 2014 at 11:35 pm
Agree jack
Kurt Wahl
Nov 18, 2014 at 7:25 am
The beauty of the left hand position Dustin, Lee Trevino and many other fine ball strikers have is that it presets the supination of the left hand at impact which saves these professionals several milliseconds of trying to do it the other way. Vijay Singh was trying to model this movement late in his career on tour. This can ignite all of your irons and create a boring penetrating flight with good spin. It is a shame this bowed left wrist is being denounced when it encourages a good left shift on the downswing, wonderful impact position, and takes the hands out of play. Go to YOUTUBE and look up TREVINO down the line….COPY HIM
Tom Stickney
Nov 18, 2014 at 10:20 am
Not denouncing it at all just saying it can be an issue if it’s undetected
Perfect
Nov 18, 2014 at 10:42 am
It’s not an issue at all, it’s a powerful hitting position. If you take it away from all the guys who use it as a power position, they will spray it every which way as their grip will get weak, their control will get weak, and they will have no power to hit with. It also forces you to engage your arms more than the weak grip position where you rely too much on body rotation, which all goes away as you get older, and it is a much better way to stay tuned into using your hands and arms to time the hit which will let you sling the club at the ball better than hoping that the body will do that for you, because it gives you a much better feel for the flat space down at the bottom of the swing that these guys are so great at finding.
Tom Stickney
Nov 17, 2014 at 11:34 pm
Mike- didn’t say you couldn’t play from there but it can cause issues if undetected.
mike
Nov 19, 2014 at 9:54 pm
I just think that like almost every pro on TV or in Golf Digest or any other magazine that you are just regurgitating the same stuff that has been keeping golfers from getting better for 70- 80 years.
A strong grip is the easiest way to become a good golfer with the right coaching and yet every single PGA pro goes the opposite way.
Do you assume like politicians that every golfer is stupid and can’t be taught or is it that you just don’t know what works best? It is a fact that you can play from there and that the average golfer can play better from there than with a weak (anything less that strong) grip. Learn to be better Tom. I’m not optimistic w/o even knowing you. Golf channel is unwatchable
because of this fact.
Tom Stickney
Nov 20, 2014 at 2:22 am
Mike– this could be the dumbest post I’ve ever had in the years I’ve written on wrx!
Max
Nov 17, 2014 at 5:57 pm
Tom, don’t a lot of pros have strong grips? How do they avoid the shut face?
Tom Stickney
Nov 17, 2014 at 6:18 pm
Either playing around it or cupping the left wrist slightly at the top
nikkyd
Nov 17, 2014 at 5:27 pm
Tom, i wish i had instructors around my neck of the woods like you. I wish i had instructors around my neck of the woods period!
Tom Stickney
Nov 17, 2014 at 6:19 pm
Thx nik
Steve
Nov 17, 2014 at 5:23 pm
One of the hardest? Take the club back. Stop. Turn and look if it’s shut. If it is, and you want to fix it, open it.
Like most things golf, it’s only hard if you make it hard.
Tom Stickney
Nov 17, 2014 at 6:19 pm
What if it’s slightly closed but during transition it closes more? Hard to feel.
Dave S
Nov 17, 2014 at 5:22 pm
Hi Tom – great article!
I sometimes battle this issue. I like to use a forward press to trigger my backswing and tend to hold that forward position throughout my swing. Typically, this helps me return the club to the same impact position, but sometimes I can literally feel the club being very shut at the top and everything goes haywire. I’ve tried weakening my grip and that worked wonders for a few rounds, but recently I’ve had trouble shutting the clubface through impact, resulting in a lot of pushes and push slices. Seems like every band-aid I put on my swing will work for a few rounds magically and then it’ll flip all the way to the other extreme. Rinse and repeat all season! Any suggestions?
Tom Stickney
Nov 17, 2014 at 6:25 pm
It’s your exaggerated address position forcing the left wrist into a flat/shut condition. Fix that.
Daniel
Nov 17, 2014 at 4:06 pm
Great article Tom, any tips for keeping balance, starting to fall off it. Thanks
tom stickney
Nov 17, 2014 at 5:12 pm
If you have a lack of balance you have a pivot issue…check how you twist and turn to displace weight
TR1PTIK
Nov 17, 2014 at 3:26 pm
I used to have a shut face at the top that was largely due to the way I took the club back. After a lesson or two with my local pro that problem has pretty much disappeared. My biggest issue right now is getting my weight to the left side properly – I tend to slide my weight with little-to-no rotation and wind up using my arms way too much on the downswing which creates a weak impact position for me. Even if I’m taking a divot at or after the ball, video analysis shows that my shaft is straight up and down at impact in the best case scenario.
tom stickney
Nov 17, 2014 at 5:13 pm
Sound like your legs are running out from under you moving your low point backwards…post up on the inside portion of your lead leg and you should find some relief.
JJ
Nov 17, 2014 at 3:11 pm
Great article Tom. I tend to get the club shut on the way back and loop it to the inside on the way down. My grip is a weak one. Any thoughts on rotating the left forearm to fix this?
tom stickney
Nov 17, 2014 at 5:14 pm
jj– you can but be careful
Craig
Dec 13, 2014 at 9:53 pm
what would be a better solution than rotating the left forearm? I used to rotate alot and made myself stop but now my face is closed
Andy H
Nov 17, 2014 at 2:17 pm
Why are golf swing theory arguments so childish and spiteful? The swing is full of variables and pointing out something that someone else may not have formerly assessed can only attempt to help a player improve. You would think that you are reading political posts sometimes with the stinging commentary from the dissenters. It’s GOLF!!
tom stickney
Nov 17, 2014 at 5:15 pm
Andy– people often criticize what they don’t understand…easy to hide behind a keyboard. I’ve been teaching for 21+ years…know the drill. Don’t have to prove my worth to anyone. Thanks.
Ben
Nov 17, 2014 at 2:11 pm
Tom any thoughts on someone who is battling the opposite? I tend to have an open club face at the top. My grip is neutral to slightly weak but I don’t believe it to be the culprit.
Tom Stickney
Nov 17, 2014 at 2:25 pm
Ben- is your wrist cupped at the top? Are you across the line or laid off?
Ben
Nov 17, 2014 at 8:15 pm
It’s cupped VERY slightly from the video I’ve taken. I’m across the line at the top ……
Tom Stickney
Nov 17, 2014 at 11:35 pm
Then those contribute to your open face.
Ben
Nov 18, 2014 at 10:17 am
Any drills I can work on that will promote a flatter wrist at the top. I’m working on stopping short of parallel as that seems to help eliminate the move across the line.
Tom Stickney
Nov 18, 2014 at 10:22 am
Ben. Check your rt Arm angle at the top.
Jafar
Nov 17, 2014 at 2:05 pm
Good Article Tom,
My clubface used to be in the “sky” position, but a I changed my grip and I am more on plane.
Fixing my backswing and body rotation is where I’m at now.
Tom Stickney
Nov 17, 2014 at 2:22 pm
Awesome j
cb
Nov 17, 2014 at 1:57 pm
love your articles tom, I’m a big fan. just had a quick question about feel. should i feel more of a natural/more active release of my hands if I’m going from a shut position to square?
Tom Stickney
Nov 17, 2014 at 2:22 pm
Yes. You can actually release it from a square condition.
Joe
Nov 17, 2014 at 1:28 pm
Ive always been proud of my flat left wrist at the top. The clubface was always a couple degrees closed but I didnt think anything of it.
I started cupping the left wrist a bit a couple months ago after hitting hooks for too long and its been a giant help for me. Strong left hand and a good cup at the top and my misses are WAYYYYY more playable, especially with the driver.
Tom Stickney
Nov 17, 2014 at 1:48 pm
Square is an “easier” position to play from.
SS
Nov 17, 2014 at 1:25 pm
Or hit the outside of the ball with an out-to-in swing and fade it.
Tom Stickney
Nov 17, 2014 at 1:28 pm
You could unless the shut face tends to make you doublecross your shots
Tom Stickney
Nov 17, 2014 at 1:22 pm
Shut tends to exaggerate the face to path ratio. Swinging more in to out only makes the problem worse.
Mickey Harris
Nov 17, 2014 at 1:36 pm
Yeah hitting the “inside” of the ball makes that shut face really mismatch path creating nasty snappers
Tom Stickney
Nov 17, 2014 at 2:23 pm
Mick. Nothing like left to left
Tom Stickney
Nov 17, 2014 at 11:36 pm
Yes
SS
Nov 17, 2014 at 1:22 pm
This is bogus. Regardless of the grip, the ball seems to “go everywhere” as evidenced by all the missed shots on Tour by the Professionals. They literally hit it left, right, long and short, regardless of their perfect grip and swing, so this article makes no sense. As mentioned below, so many players have had the strong grip/shut face set up and didn’t seem to really bother them. Yes they were athletes and therefore were able to work out a way to hit it that way as great athletes always do, to make it work. Also Stack & Tilt should be called a swing flaw for Drivers or for hitting a consistent fade, but you guys are too afraid to say so.
Tom Stickney
Nov 17, 2014 at 1:27 pm
ss…shut faces mean both types of misses not just one but the issue is that it’s hard to detect without help. There is no one fix for everything. Your comments are senseless within the context of my article.
gvogel
Nov 17, 2014 at 12:38 pm
Among players who play from a shut face at the top, besides Dustin Johnson, are Tom Watson, Brooks Koepka, Lee Trevino, Bruce Lietzke, Paul Azinger and Arnold Palmer.
So what’s wrong with playing from a shut face again?
Josh
Nov 17, 2014 at 12:57 pm
Nothing is wrong with it. “Shut” is an extremely relative term for the most part. Mostly what Tom is saying is that in general most Am’s who have a closed club face at the top end up with a closed face-to-path at impact or have zero control over the face of the club at all due to the position they get the club in at the top of the swing. Big difference from guys at the highest level who have completely control over the club face. DJ for example has a “shut” face at the top but swings from the inside and the face actually ends up more square to his path/slightly open. The only thing that is “wrong” is the inability to get the club face pointing in the same direction (within a few degress) 8/10 times. Which for most people is very hard without proper guidance. The feelings that Tom provides are great for finding the problem and then learning how to control it.
Tom Stickney
Nov 17, 2014 at 1:24 pm
Agree josh. Thx.
Mickey Harris
Nov 17, 2014 at 1:29 pm
I agree 100% with the point that the club face position at the top has relative value and in some cases has little to nothing wrong with it. Often times a “shut” club face can produce more shaft lean out of neccessity or grip which we can all agree to have a commonality with better ball striking. While “more shaft lean” doesn’t guarentee better golf I also think that labeling any preferential component as the “hardest” to cure or make correct without an instructor is nearly impossible. I’ve found that changing path within certain golfers is damn near impossible which leads to attempting to fix club face and initial launch direction to help golfers play better. One instructor may find another. While many sort through a phony hierarchy of instructors to find laws within preferences, I’d like to see us agree that the hardest thing to correct or change is something that has become habitual. We must then learn to either work with or against this mountain.
Tom Stickney
Nov 17, 2014 at 2:24 pm
Mick– you must find someone whom you agree with…100% agree
Tom Stickney
Nov 17, 2014 at 1:24 pm
I didn’t say you couldn’t play with a shut face but for every one of those players there are 10000+ who can’t play dead