Opinion & Analysis
Wishon: The best way to fit lie angle
The higher the loft on the clubhead, the more critical it is to be dynamically fit for the correct lie angle. It is also important, however, to have the lie correctly fit for the fairway woods and hybrids to ensure solid impact consistency.
For the driver, lie angle is less of an accuracy issue due to its lower loft, but if the toe of the driver is severely up in the air in the address position — due to how the length chosen affects the set up of the lie for the golfer — the driver lie should definitely be fit to the golfer if for no other reason than confidence and psychological reasons.
Recent studies and observations have shown that the technique where an ink line is drawn on the back of the ball is better for dynamic lie fitting than using a lie board with tape on the sole of the iron. Plus the ink-line technique can also be done while hitting shots from normal mown grass lies so as to avoid having to hit the club down into a hard surface lie board, a practice which does bother some golfers and cause them to possibly swing differently than they do when hitting shots off grass.
The ink line on the back of the ball technique for dynamic lie fitting is simple and logical. A heavy ink line is drawn on the ball with a Sharpie pen. The ball is placed on the ground with the line vertical and facing the clubhead. After impact, a faint image of the ink line is transferred to the clubface. If the line is perfectly vertical on the clubface, the lie of the club is correct for the golfer. If the ink line tilts in an angle up toward the toe side of the face, the lie of the club that was hit is too upright so the correct lie has to be flatter than the lie of the club being hit. Vice versa — if the ink line angles up toward the heel side of the face, the correct lie has to be more upright than the lie of the test club.
In the near future, kits for this technique of dynamic lie fitting will become available that will include face labels with graduated lines to make the determination of the correct lie much easier and more definitive.
For the highest level of accuracy, dynamic lie fitting should be done as the last procedure in the fitting, using a test club(s) that possess every one of the golfer’s determined fitting specs for the clubhead model, length, shaft, swing weight (MOI) and grip size. In lieu of this, a test club for proper dynamic lie evaluation should at least have the length, shaft and swing weight that is found best for the golfer.
In an ideal world, the dynamic lie test should be done with each one of the golfer’s clubs. Obviously, this will take a good bit more time to do. As such, if time becomes an issue, it is OK to perform the dynamic lie test with every other club or even every third club, with the lies of the in-between irons calculated from the actual dynamic lies determined by each test club.
Related
- What length should your clubs be?
- What lofts should your clubs be?
- Face angle is crucial for a proper fitting
- The best way to fit lie angle
- How to choose the right club head design
- Tom Wishon’s keys to set makeup
- Getting the right size grip, time after time
- What shaft weight should you play?
- What swing weight should your clubs be?
- What shaft flex should I use?
This story is part of a 10-part series from Tom Wishon on professional club fitting.
Opinion & Analysis
Brandel Chamblee PGA Championship Q&A: Rose’s huge McLaren risk, distracted LIV pros and why Aronimink suits the bombers
PGA Championship week is here, and Brandel Chamblee did not hold back in our latest discussion ahead of the season’s second major.
In our 2026 PGA Championship Q&A, golf’s leading analyst made the case that PIF pulling LIV’s funding has left its players competing in a state of confusion, called Justin Rose’s mid-season equipment switch a huge risk at 45, and explained why Aronimink will be a bombers’ delight this week.
Check out the full Q&A below.
Gianni: With the PIF confirming that they’re pulling funding from LIV at the end of the season, what impact do you expect that to have on the LIV players competing at the PGA Championship?
Brandel: I would imagine that they have all been thrown into a state of confusion, and will be distracted, not knowing where they are going to play next year and not knowing exactly their road back to either the DP World Tour or the PGA Tour. Or in Rahm’s case, being tied to a sinking ship for the next few years, likely playing for pennies on the dollar in events that no one cares about or watches.
I doubt this would put him in the best frame of mind to compete at his highest level. Keeping in mind, however, that majors are the only time that LIV disciples get to play in events that matter, so never disregard the motivation they have to prove to the world they are still relevant.
Gianni: Justin Rose switched to McLaren Golf equipment mid-season while playing some of the best golf of his career. What do you make of the change?
Brandel: I don’t really know what to make of Rose switching equipment. It seems a huge risk on his part, even though it is likely, in my opinion, that the clubs he’s playing are similar, if not the exact grinds, to what he was playing previously, with a McLaren stamp on them.
Having said that, at best, it is a distraction when he seemed to be as dialed in with his game as any 45-year-old could be and trending in the majors to perhaps do something that would definitely put him in the Hall of Fame. At worst, given the possibility that these clubs aren’t just duplicates of his old set stamped with McLaren on them, he’s made an equipment change that would take time, and 45-year-old athletes don’t have the time to do such things.
Gianni: Aronimink has only hosted a handful of professional events since it hosted the 1962 PGA Championship. What kind of test does it present, and does a course with less recent major championship history tend to level the playing field?
Brandel: Even though Aronimink has only hosted a handful of meaningful professional events, it has been fairly discerning in who can win there. When Keegan Bradley won the BMW Championship on the Donald Ross masterpiece in 2018, he was the 2nd best iron player on tour coming into that week. When Nick Watney won the AT&T at Aronimink in 2011, he was 2nd in strokes gained total coming into the week.
In 2020, Aronimink hosted the KPMG Championship, and Sei Young Kim won. On the LPGA that year, she was first in greens in regulation, putts per green in regulation, and scoring average on the way to being the LPGA player of the year. And then there is the 1962 PGA Championship won by Gary Player, who eventually became just one of a few players to win the career grand slam on the way to winning 9 majors. It is a formidable test, and if it’s not softened by rain, it will bring out the best in the upper echelons of the game.
Gianni: Is there a specific hole at Aronimink that you think will do the most to decide the winner?
Brandel: The hardest hole at Aronimink in each of the three tour events that have been played there since 2010 has been the long par-3 8th hole, with the par-4 10th being the second hardest, so most of the carnage will happen around the turn, but with the par-5 16th offering opportunities for bold plays and the tough closing holes at 17 and 18, the finish is likely to be frenetic.
Gianni: The PGA Championship has always sat in the shadow of the other majors. What does the ideal PGA Championship look like in your eyes, and what would it take for it to carve out its own identity?
Brandel: The PGA Championship, to whatever degree it suffers from the comparison to the other three majors, is still counted just as much when adding them up at the end of one’s career. Almost 1/3 of Nicklaus’ major wins were the five PGA Championships he won. Walter Hagen won 11 majors, five of which were PGA Championships.
Tiger Woods twice in his career won back-to-back PGA Championships, and those four majors count just as much as the other 11 he won. The PGA may not have the prestige of the other three, but it carries the same weight. Having said that, I preferred the identity that it had as the last major of the year.
Gianni: You nailed your Masters picks. Rory won, Scottie finished solo second, and Morikawa surged to a tie for seventh. Who are your top 3 picks for the PGA Championship and why?
Brandel: I am not a huge fan of majors played on golf courses that have been shorn of most of the trees, although I understand some of the agronomic reasons for doing so and of course the ease with which it allows members to play after errant drives. However, at the highest level, it all but eliminates any strategy off the tee and turns professional golf into an even bigger slugfest. That means that it will likely be a bomber’s delight this week, but fortunately, Scottie Scheffler is long enough to play that game and straight enough to play it better than anyone else.
The major championships give us very few surprises anymore, going back to the beginning of 2012, so the last 57 majors played, the average world rank of the winners has been better than 15th in the world. So look at the highest ranked and longest drivers who are on form coming into the PGA Championship who also have great short games as the surrounds at Aronimink are very challenging. That’s Scottie Scheffler by a mile and then McIlroy and Cameron Young with a far bigger nod towards DeChambeau than I gave him at the Masters.
In this episode of the Club Junkie Podcast, we dive into one of the most interesting flatstick releases of the year with a full review of the new TaylorMade SYSTM 2 putters. After spending time on the greens, I break down what makes this design stand out, where it performs, and why it has me completely torn between loving it and fighting it. If you are into feel, alignment, and consistency, this is one you will want to hear about.
We also take a look at some of the putters in play on the PGA Tour last week. From familiar favorites to a few surprising setups, there is always something to learn from what the best players in the world are rolling with under pressure.
To wrap things up, I walk through the process of building a set of JP Golf Prime irons paired with Baddazz Gold Series shafts. From component selection to performance goals, this is a deep dive into what goes into creating a unique custom set and why this combo has been so intriguing.
This year my 50th birthday. Gosh, where has the time gone?
As a teenager in rural Missouri, some of my junior high and high school years felt interminable. Graduation seemed light years away. But the older I get, the faster life seems to fly by.
I’m also increasingly aware of my mortality. My dad died recently. Earlier this year, a friend and fellow PGA of America professional and I were texting about our next catch-up. The next message I received was news of his unexpected passing at 48. Shortly after, a woman I dated in college succumbed to cancer at 51.
Certainly, one can share perspective at any age. Seniors help freshmen, veterans guide rookies. But reaching this milestone feels like as good a time as any to do one of those “what would I tell my younger self?” articles.
I’ve had a uniquely varied career in golf. I started as a 27-year-old, average-length-hitting, 14-handicap computer engineer and somehow managed to turn pro before running out of money, constantly bootstrapping my way forward. I’ve won qualifiers and set venue records in the World Long Drive Championships, finished fifth at the Speedgolf World Championships, coached all skill levels as a PGA of America professional, built industry-leading swing speed training programs for Swing Man Golf, helped advance the single-length iron market with Sterling Irons®, caddied on the PGA TOUR and PGA TOUR Champions, and played about 300 courses across 32 countries.
It’s been a ride, and I’ve gone both deep and wide.
So while I can consult and advise from a lot of angles, let me keep it to a few things I’d tell the average golfer who wants to improve.
1. Think About What You Want
Everyone has their own reason for picking up a golf club.
Oddly, as a professional athlete, I’m not internally driven by competition. That can be challenging, as the industry currently prioritizes and incentivizes competition over the love of the game.
For me, I love walking and being outdoors. Nature helps balance my energy. I prefer courses that are integrated into the natural beauty of their surroundings. I’m comfortable practicing alone. I’m a deep thinker, and I genuinely enjoy investigating the game, using data and intuition to unearth unique, often innovative insights. I’m fortunate to be strong and athletic, so I appreciate the chance to engage with my abilities. Traveling feels adventurous. I could go on.
You don’t have to overthink it like I do. For you, it might be as simple as hitting balls to escape work, hanging out with friends, and playing loosely with the rules and the score.
The point is to give yourself permission to play for your own reasons, and let that be enough.
But if improvement is your goal, thinking about your destination—and when you want to get there—is important, because it dictates the steps you need to take. When I set out to go from a 14-handicap to the PGA TOUR as quickly as possible, the steps I needed were very different from those of a working golfer trying to break 90 in six months. That’s also different from someone who just wants a few peaceful hours outside each week, away from work or family.
None of these goals are better than the others, but each requires a different plan that you can work backward from.
2. There Are Lots of Things That Can Work
One of the challenges of golf is that, although there are rules for playing, there aren’t clear, industry-wide standards for how to best play the game. There’s a lot of gray area.
You might hear a top coach or trainer insist that a certain move is the best way to swing or train. Then you dig a bit deeper and, much to your confusion and frustration, another respected coach or trainer says something completely different. I don’t think anyone is trying to confuse you—at least I hope not. It’s just where the industry is right now.
You have to be careful with advice from tournament pros, too. They might be great at scoring, but they’re also human and sometimes just as susceptible as amateurs to believing things that don’t really move the needle. Tour players might describe what they feel, but that’s not always what they’re actually doing when assessed with technology.
I recently ran a test on my YouTube channel (which connects to my GolfWRX article “How to use your hands in the golf swing for power and accuracy”), and, interestingly, two of the most commonly taught hand actions produced the worst results in the test.
Coaches can certainly help. If you find someone you connect with to help navigate, that’s great. But there are many ways to get the ball in the hole. In the current landscape, you may need to seek multiple opinions, think critically, and use your own intuition to discern what seems true and whose advice resonates with you.
I’d recommend seeking someone who is open-minded and always learning, because things constantly change. Absolutes like “correct” or “proper” should raise a red flag. AI can be useful, but it tends to confidently repeat popular advice, so proceed with caution.
3. Get Custom Fit
If you’re serious about becoming a better player, getting custom fit is hugely important. There’s no sense fighting your equipment if you don’t have to. Most better players get fit these days and, if they don’t, they’re usually skilled enough to work around clubs that aren’t ideal.
If you plan to play for a long time, it’s worth spending a little more upfront to get something that truly fits you and your game, rather than continually buying and discarding equipment.
Equipment rules haven’t really changed significantly since the early 2000s. To stay in business, manufacturers keep pushing those limits. If you pull a bunch of clubs and balls off the rack and test them, you’ll find differences. I’ve tested two new drivers and seen a 30-yard total distance gap. Usually, the issue isn’t bad equipment; it’s that the combination of components simply isn’t the best fit.
It’s like wearing a new pair of floppy clown shoes. Sure, they’re shoes—but you won’t sprint your best in them compared to track shoes that fit perfectly.
Be wary of what’s called custom fitting, too. Sometimes the term is used as a marketing strategy rather than an actual fitting. In some retail settings, fitters may be incentivized to steer you toward higher-priced components. That doesn’t automatically mean it’s not the best fit, but you should be aware of potential biases.
I learned a version of this lesson outside of golf. Years ago, I bought a tennis racquet at a big box store from a seemingly knowledgeable employee who thought it would suit me best. The racquet gave me tennis elbow, and I spent months recovering with rest and acupuncture. The next season, I invested more time and money to find what actually fit me, and I walked away with something amazing that I still play with years later.
So if you’re going to get fit, be smart about it.
Find someone you believe has deep knowledge—possibly with certifications, but not necessarily. Make sure there’s a wide inventory across many brands. Check recent reviews for the individual fitter if possible. Make sure you trust that the fitter has your best interests at heart. If they’re wearing a hat or shirt with a specific brand’s logo, proceed with caution. Unless you specifically want a certain brand or look, be wary of upsells, especially if two options perform nearly the same.
Also, while golf is called a sport of integrity, there’s a thread of manipulation in the industry. I once drafted an equipment article for an industry magazine, structured just like one of their previous popular stories, with matching word count and great photos. The assistant editor loved it; it was useful to readers and required little work on his part. But the editor-in-chief nixed the story. When I asked why, I was told it was because I wasn’t an advertiser. It turned out the article I’d modeled mine after was a paid ad cleverly disguised as editorial content.
I really dislike games, clickbait, and fear-based manipulation. I hope this changes, but golfers deserve to know it exists.
4. Distance and Strategy Matter
There’s a real relationship between how far you hit the ball and your scoring average, even at the PGA TOUR level.
I experienced this early in my pro career. I started as a power hitter, swinging in the high 120s and breaking 200 mph ball speed with a stock driver.
Back then, some instructors advised swinging at 80%, so I tried slowing down for more accuracy. That worked fine on shorter, tighter courses. But on longer setups, I was coming into greens with too much club, and par 5s stopped being
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Lee
May 20, 2016 at 4:46 am
TOM –
“We’re working on that in terms of a face label with gradation lines printed on the label in degree increments so you could put the label on the face, hit the ball with the vertical ink line, see the transfer of the line to the label and then know the lie change based on which degree line on the label is parallel to the ink line.”
Just wondering if these are available to the market yet? I could use some for testing the lie of my new Wishon 771 irons! Hit the course today with some fairly inconsistent results, and felt I was getting a number of toe/ground hits in spite of my custom fitting by a top professional club-fitter. We did the final fitting off of a black board, not the method you describe here.
gerry caradonna
Mar 28, 2016 at 1:10 am
Anyone know of a good club fitter in palm beach FL. to get my loft and lie angle checked i went to Dicks sporting goods seems like they just dont have the time or dont care just try to rush you
Phil
Jul 13, 2015 at 11:10 am
I have the utmost respect for Tom and true gratitude for sharing his sage knowledge here. As a golfer who recently purchased some club building / adjusting equipment out of frustration with big box golf store workmanship (hard to blame them with the prices they offer & volume they must process daily) I was pleased to read this article. Since day one of becoming a golfer it was clear to me that hitting off a lie board was not a quality fit and this has always stuck in the back of my mind. The board sits above the stance for one, the golfer is adjusting the swing to ‘pick the ball’, they can easily hit it slightly fat deflect head first and slide that angle into the ball etc. etc. Hitting off grass into a marked ball is such a simple solution – the only way to go.
That said…. and I know the focus is on strictly on fitting here… The vast majority of golfers often have too upright a swing to begin with and end up on their toes displaying less than great leg/foot work – again, I know this is an issue the fitter is not responsible for. Still, having either standard or purposely flat lies teaches / requires more engagement of the lower body and foot work for these golfers to achieve a desired ball flight. It wouldn’t be outside the club builders / fitters arena to recommend, fit, build a couple of ‘practice clubs’ designed for this intent. It also wouldn’t be wrong if the fitter, seeing egregious ott etc. issues, offers the golfer the option to shave a degree with the understanding that golfer is taking lessons. Just my 2 cents, maybe I’m missing some points, regardless I’m really glad to learn about this fitting technique – Thanks!
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Dave
Feb 28, 2015 at 7:44 pm
Tom,
This posting just came in to me and I can say it is timely. I fit a player today in the Weathers Facility here at IU using the sharpie method. He came to me asking about the differences between the lie board and the sharpie method. I had previously fit a pair of Vokey wedges to 2*upright which is what his swing calls for. After the fitting of all the clubs we found that most of the special order clubs were -1.5* from his needed specs. Bending them upright put his swing plane and impact right on spec for him. I suspect that I could have used the lie board and gotten to the same place with this player, but the line on the face of the irons and the change from perpendicular to the score lines, was easy enough for him to see and be convinced of the need for a change.
Mat
Feb 2, 2015 at 5:39 pm
Just a sidenote – some manufacturers go 0.5º between irons, and others 0.75º. Thus, one brand to another can cause a degree difference at the longest and shortest irons…
Dave S
Jan 29, 2015 at 1:28 pm
Edit: I know i can get them adjusted for pretty cheap at a local Golfsmith ($5 per club), but that would require me to know exactly how to bend them. I guess what I’m really asking is whether there’s a cheap way to have my dynamic lie tested?
Tom Wishon
Jan 29, 2015 at 4:01 pm
In all honesty, to get this done right so you have no doubt, you need to find a good, experienced clubmaker in your area who can both do the dynamic lie fitting test to tell him exactly how much to bend each iron so it is right for your swing, and then to do the bends as determined. You can try to ask the person at GS if they also can put you through a dynamic lie fitting test, if they know how to do that and could do that for you. I don’t know if retail stores like this can do that or would do it.
To find a good clubmaker, I would advise you head to the websites of the AGCP (Association of Golf Clubfitting Professionals) and the ICG (International Clubmakers’ Guild) and use their search tools to see if there is a clubmaker in reasonable proximity to your location. Google them and you’ll find their sites and on their sites you can find their locator search tool. The bending is only half of the task – you need someone competent in conducting a proper dynamic lie fitting test which tells how much each of your irons needs to be bent to fit you.
Nick
Jan 29, 2015 at 10:57 pm
Dave – Golfsmith does an above average job of training its fitters and techs. While a certified club builder is preferable, they should be able to do a good job for you.
I recommend printing out the specs of your irons and measuring the lie angle of the clubs you’re testing to get the best results. You need to establish a base line because clubs are not always built exactly to spec and/or lie angles can change a bit over time with use.
Dave S
Jan 29, 2015 at 11:30 am
Is there a way to get the lie adjusted on my irons for relatively cheap?
Erich
Jan 29, 2015 at 8:54 am
I swing a few degrees left so I need some toe down or I will pull the ball to the left. Your lie needs to start the ball on your target line, it doesn’t have to be perfect by robot standards. In the wedges if they are fit for my full swing then I will definitely pull my wedges since I play 2* upright. I must play flatter wedges so I don’t pull pitches and dig the heel in on short shots since my hands aren’t as high at impact. His information is great but nothing new.
Ryan
Jan 28, 2015 at 9:55 pm
Hi Tom,
I was just wondering why the lie angle should be the last thing checked in a fitting. I was taught that checking for lie angle was one of the first things that you do and I’ve done all my fittings that way. I have always used the dry erase marker method and I double check the angle at the end of each fitting. I made the assumption that once you found a lie angle that worked, you had a pretty good idea what lie angle to try on all the clubs.I was just hoping you could shed some light as to why you do it last. Thanks!
Tom Wishon
Jan 29, 2015 at 10:37 am
RYAN
We recommend doing the lie test and final lie adjustment after everything else is determined in the fitting because that way it takes everything into account that could affect the dynamic lie results in the lie fitting. Shaft droop – if you are being lie tested with the right fit club for you, it then takes the flex/bend profile, headweight effect on shaft bending, length effect on shaft bending all into account to reveal what your best lie will be for YOUR custom fit clubs. If you test with a club that has a different shaft flex/bend profile, length, headweight then the results you see could be different than the results you would see with the golfer’s final fit clubs. Do understand we are talking smaller details here but doing it this way just to be 100% sure the dynamic lie is as accurate as it can be for the golfer with his final fit in the clubs. Usually if you do your dynamic lie test with an iron that is of the same length and close enough in shaft and swingweight, that will typically be good enough.
Jeff
Jan 28, 2015 at 5:42 pm
So bored with this guy.
Golfrnut
Jan 28, 2015 at 6:24 pm
Guys around here are probably much more tired of the trolling comments from people like yourself than getting useful information from people like Tom. When you have something to bring to the table, then speak, otherwise you can just climb back down in the hole that you came from.
JC
Jan 28, 2015 at 6:28 pm
I know right. Darn him for taking time out of his day to write articles that could help people play better golf! SMH
Mark
Jan 28, 2015 at 4:45 pm
Is there a “rule of thumb” regarding how far the lie angle needs to be adjusted based on how far from vertical the line on the club face diverges? Is it a 1:1 relationship? (1 degree off from vertical means that you will have to adjust the club 1 degree).
Tom Wishon
Jan 29, 2015 at 10:45 am
MARK:
We’re working on that in terms of a face label with gradation lines printed on the label in degree increments so you could put the label on the face, hit the ball with the vertical ink line, see the transfer of the line to the label and then know the lie change based on which degree line on the label is parallel to the ink line. It’s simple geometry and really, one could do this with a protractor on the face to get pretty close because it is a 1:1 relationship in degrees off vertical on the face. But the labels will make it easier to do (as long as you get the label on the face correctly !!! – HA, there’s always a kicker, right?!!)
Be aware that by no means is this ink line method ours or anyone’s current discovery. It was first brought out by a very nice man and pioneer in repair and clubmaking by the name of Bud Blankenship for his former company in the 80s/90s called GolfTek in Idaho. Bud passed away unfortunately some years ago and never got the credit he deserved for some of the innovative things he contributed to the earlier days of clubfitting. He was a good friend of many in the industry from back then and it is right to give credit where credit is due on this.
Albatross85
Jan 28, 2015 at 3:47 pm
Dry erase marker works best and leaves nothing permanent
Nick
Jan 28, 2015 at 1:53 pm
I have been using the sharpie method in my fittings for several years. My only caution is that you must be extra careful to get the line on the ball as close to vertical as possible – otherwise your results will be inaccurate of inconsistent.
Lie angle does play a role in where we strike the ball on the face. As a general rule for irons, flattening the lie will move impact to the toe and bending the club more upright will move impact to the heel. In my experience, however, golfers have more success when the lie angle is adjusted to optimize turf interaction and other specs (shaft length, swing weight, stiffness, etc.) are adjusted to promote center face contact.
50jay
Jan 28, 2015 at 12:37 pm
Great Article!
I have a question for Tom:
My last lie fitting was done on a lie board and the result was 2*UP. I had them bent back then. Even though the lies are still 2*UP, my natural tendency would be to hit them on the toe side of the blade. When I had them checked again with a lie board it indicated me that I needed even more upright clubs.
Could it be that the lie board is giving me the wrong answer and that my lies are in fact too upright for me considering my clubs are at the proper length? I just want to understand the logic behind all of this.
Thank you Tom, your input is greatly appreciated on this site!
(I will perform the ink test as soon as possible.)
Kelly
Jan 28, 2015 at 7:55 pm
This is similar to my fittings. One of my swing flaws is that I will come in with high hands. In addition to high hands I have a swing speed on the higher side. Using a lie board I’be been fit or maroon dot Pings before. I’ve also been fit for a very tip stiff shaft with very upright clubs before. Truthfully I was never comfortable with these clubs from a looks and shaft flex standpoint. I decided that I would rather feel better about the other factors than be to concerned about what the lie board showed. I do plan on trying the ink line as a test.
Thanks to Tom for another informative article.
Tom Wishon
Jan 29, 2015 at 4:05 pm
50jay
What you report is precisely why the astute fitters are switching away from lie boards to use the ink line method. Somewhere on YOU TUBE is a slo mo video that captures exactly the weird anomaly that can cause a lie board test to result in an errant toe side impact on the sole. Fascinating video. It shows that right when the face hits the ball before the sole touches the board/ground, the reaction of the head right at impact is to cause the toe to tilt down more, which is what puts the toe end of the sole on the board. So my bet is that’s what’s happening with your more upright readings. You will know for sure if you do the ink line test.
Mike
Jan 28, 2015 at 12:24 pm
Great stuff Tom! Is there any correlation between heel/toe contact and lie angle? Thanks!
Tom Wishon
Jan 29, 2015 at 10:56 am
MIKE
Not 100% sure what you are asking for sure but it is true that if sole contact is on the heel or toe side, then for sure this is a basic indicator that whatever the lies of your irons are now is not what they need to be to allow the sole to travel level to the ground through impact. The old way of dynamic lie fitting involving the lie board would always teach that for each 1/4″ that the center of the sole impact mark with the lie board was off from the very center of the sole, that represented a 1* change. So for example if the average/consistent center of the sole rub mark was 1/1″ on the heel side of face center, that indicated a 2* flatter lie bend to the iron and vice versa for upright if the center of the sole rub mark was 1/2″ toward the toe side of sole center. Hope this hit what you were asking about.
Bb
Jan 28, 2015 at 11:52 am
Great article . Bad clubs , over priced
Clubs have no meat to them
Ted
Jan 28, 2015 at 11:43 am
I’ve did this type of lie angle testing after reading about Tom’s method. It works, its easy, and can be done for the price of a Sharpie.
Max
Jan 28, 2015 at 11:37 am
Tom posted this info in one of the forums a few years ago and I tried it and found my irons were too upright. So easy to test and I no longer hook my short irons now that the lies have been adjusted accordingly. Definitely try this if you hook your short irons or hit them left a lot.
Awedge333
Jan 28, 2015 at 5:54 pm
OK, my long clubs trend right – shout clubs trend left. 7-8 irons go straight…..
What does this mean???
Awedge333
Jan 28, 2015 at 5:56 pm
Sorry, short not shout….. that only comes after impact!
Tom Wishon
Jan 29, 2015 at 10:52 am
AWedge
This could be a situation in which you come into impact in a little different posture/spine angle/hands position with each of the different segments of your iron set. That’s pretty common because the lengths and total weights of our irons are all different from each other so with some golfers it very much can affect their position at impact which then affects the lie position of the clubhead through impact. How to resolve this is to do the dynamic lie test with each and every one of the clubs, and not to do it as most do which is to dyn lie test one iron only and then extrapolate all the other lies in 1* increments from that one test iron.
Clubfitters who do an every club lie test almost always find that when it is all done and they look at the actual final lie measurements for every iron, the lies won’t go in a nice 1* increment from club to club. Yes, this takes a lot longer to do. But in a case such as what you describe in your irons, it becomes the best way to try to resolve what you are seeing.
If after doing this you still find right/left results with different segments of the set then the place to investigate will be, 1) are the lengths absolutely right for you, your height/wrist to floor, your tempo/transition, ability, 2) are the swingweights and total weights of the irons right for you and your tempo/transition, sense of feel for your timing and rhythm in the swing.