Opinion & Analysis
Well… We’re waiting
One of my favorite scenes from the best golf movie ever, Caddyshack:
Judge Smails: “Ty, what did you shoot today?”
Ty Webb: “Oh Judge, I don’t keep score.”
Judge Smails: “Then how do you measure yourself with other golfers?”
Ty Webb: “By height.”
It was stroke play that rang the death knell for fast play. As soon as golfers became obsessed with the phrase, “What did you shoot,” reasonable pace of play went the way of the featherie.
Listen to the great Tom Watson on pace of play:
“At the great Muirfield Course in Scotland, there’s a venerable tradition concerning foursomes which I think should be tried, at least occasionally, at American clubs: Nothing except foursomes play (alternate shot) is permitted on weekend mornings. A brisk foursome, which might have one partner already positioned in the drive zone to play the second shot, can be played in two and a half hours. Then a quick break for lunch, and perhaps a four ball (better ball as we call it) in another three and a half hours. All told, the members get in 36 holes, with lunch in under seven hours. An estimable goal for all of us.”
But here in America, it is almost sacrilegious to even consider not keeping your score. And when amateurs insist on counting every stroke, and holing out every putt, it takes considerably longer to play a round. That’s why golfers should consider more match play in their groups, and shouldn’t be afraid to pick up their ball when they are out of the hole. The handicap system allows for this with the maximum number of strokes clause, so use it, because there is nothing worse than someone agonizing over a putt for a nine!
Another issue that tends to slow play is watching professional golf on TV. What golfers fail to realize is that these guys and gals are playing FOR A LIVING and every shot can mean thousands of dollars. They have well rehearsed pre-shot routines, professional caddies and perhaps even more important is that they are the playing the most difficult courses in the world with greens that are lightening quick and tricky.
I am not defending pace of play on the PGA Tour, it is entirely too slow, but I do think it is important to realize the difference. And remember they do their pre-shot routines 70 times, the average golfer might do it 90 times!
Carts have also slowed down play, for the simple reason that many golfers do not know how to drive or park them in a way that speeds up play. Many golfers have become “overly social” in this area of the game. There is nothing that slows play more than driving to your playing partner’s ball and sitting in the cart as he hits. I would rather have four small, single carts so that everyone could drive directly to their ball (Any entrepreneurs out there)! But because that is financially impractical I suppose, try this: When you drive to the shortest tee shot, drop your partner off and head for your ball. As her or she hits, be going through your pre-shot routine. After his/her ball lands, be ready to fire!
The same thing with putting: You can be lining up your putt as the others are preparing to putt. Just be still when they are making the stroke. And remember to park the cart where you walk off the green toward the next tee. And on days when the carts must be kept on the path, take a handful of clubs with you out to the fairway. Simple common sense ideas that can save time in a round.
Here’s an old Scottish story: An American visited Scotland for the first time and he topped his first tee shot. He turned to the local Scottish player and said,
“In America we call that a mulligan. What do you call it?”
“Cheating,” the Scot replied.
Mulligans. Really? If you get to hit balls before your round, you should be ready, and your first shot is in play. Or if your club allows mulligans, try this: If you do hit a second tee shot, you MUST play it. You’ll be surprised at how few choose to re-tee!
Let’s face it — we live in an age when a lot more people play golf than they did many years ago. And maybe we are being unrealistic to use the four-hour round as our model, but if more golfers were educated and taught to realize how many small things add up to big time savings for all of us, the game would move more quickly.
As always, feel free to send a swing video to my Facebook page and I will do my best to give you my feedback.
As the editor-in-chief of this website and an observer of the GolfWRX forums and other online golf equipment discourse for over a decade, I’m pretty well attuned to the grunts and grumbles of a significant portion of the golf equipment purchasing spectrum. And before you accuse me of lording above all in some digital ivory tower, I’d like to offer that I worked at golf courses (public and private) for years prior to picking up my pen, so I’m well-versed in the non-degenerate golf equipment consumers out there. I touched (green)grass (retail)!
Complaints about the ills of and related to the OEMs usually follow some version of: Product cycles are too short for real innovation, tour equipment isn’t the same as retail (which is largely not true, by the way), too much is invested in marketing and not enough in R&D, top staffer X hasn’t even put the new driver in play, so it’s obviously not superior to the previous generation, prices are too high, and on and on.
Without digging into the merits of any of these claims, which I believe are mostly red herrings, I’d like to bring into view of our rangefinder what I believe to be the two primary difficulties golf equipment companies face.
One: As Terry Koehler, back when he was the CEO of Ben Hogan, told me at the time of the Ft Worth irons launch, if you can’t regularly hit the golf ball in a coin-sized area in the middle of the face, there’s not a ton that iron technology can do for you. Now, this is less true now with respect to irons than when he said it, and is less and less true by degrees as the clubs get larger (utilities, fairways, hybrids, drivers), but there remains a great deal of golf equipment truth in that statement. Think about it — which is to say, in TL;DR fashion, get lessons from a qualified instructor who will teach you about the fundamentals of repeatable impact and how the golf swing works, not just offer band-aid fixes. If you can’t repeatably deliver the golf club to the golf ball in something resembling the manner it was designed for, how can you expect to be getting the most out of the club — put another way, the maximum value from your investment?
Similarly, game improvement equipment can only improve your game if you game it. In other words, get fit for the clubs you ought to be playing rather than filling the bag with the ones you wish you could hit or used to be able to hit. Of course, don’t do this if you don’t care about performance and just want to hit a forged blade while playing off an 18 handicap. That’s absolutely fine. There were plenty of members in clubs back in the day playing Hogan Apex or Mizuno MP-32 irons who had no business doing so from a ballstriking standpoint, but they enjoyed their look, feel, and complementary qualities to their Gatsby hats and cashmere sweaters. Do what brings you a measure of joy in this maddening game.
Now, the second issue. This is not a plea for non-conforming equipment; rather, it is a statement of fact. USGA/R&A limits on every facet of golf equipment are detrimental to golf equipment manufacturers. Sure, you know this, but do you think about it as it applies to almost every element of equipment? A 500cc driver would be inherently more forgiving than a 460cc, as one with a COR measurement in excess of 0.83. 50-inch shafts. Box grooves. And on and on.
Would fewer regulations be objectively bad for the game? Would this erode its soul? Fortunately, that’s beside the point of this exercise, which is merely to point out the facts. The fact, in this case, is that equipment restrictions and regulations are the slaughterbench of an abundance of innovation in the golf equipment space. Is this for the best? Well, now I’ve asked the question twice and might as well give a partial response, I guess my answer to that would be, “It depends on what type of golf you’re playing and who you’re playing it with.”
For my part, I don’t mind embarrassing myself with vintage blades and persimmons chasing after the quasi-spiritual elevation of a well-struck shot, but that’s just me. Plenty of folks don’t give a damn if their grooves are conforming. Plenty of folks think the folks in Liberty Corner ought to add a prison to the museum for such offences. And those are just a few of the considerations for the amateur game — which doesn’t get inside the gallery ropes of the pro game…
Different strokes in the game of golf, in my humble opinion.
Anyway, I believe equipment company engineers are genuinely trying to build better equipment year over year. The marketing departments are trying to find ways to make this equipment appeal to the broadest segment of the golf market possible. All of this against (1) the backdrop of — at least for now — firm product cycles. And golfers who, with their ~15 average handicap (men), for the most part, are not striping the golf ball like Tiger in his prime and seem to have less and less time year over year to practice and improve. (2) Regulations that massively restrict what they’re able to do…
That’s the landscape as I see it and the real headwinds for golf equipment companies. No doubt, there’s more I haven’t considered, but I think the previous is a better — and better faith — point of departure when formulating any serious commentary on the golf equipment world than some of the more cynical and conspiratorial takes I hear.
Agree? Disagree? Think I’m worthy of an Adam Hadwin-esque security guard tackle? Let me know in the comments.
@golfoncbs The infamous Adam Hadwin tackle ? #golf #fyp #canada #pgatour #adamhadwin ? Ghibli-style nostalgic waltz – MaSssuguMusic
Episode #16 brings us Cliff McKinney. Cliff is the founder of Old Charlie Golf Club, a new club, and concept, to be built in the Florida panhandle. The model is quite interesting and aims to make great, private golf more affordable. We hope you enjoy the show!
Last week, I came across a reel from BBC Sport on Instagram featuring Scottie Scheffler speaking to the media ahead of The Open at Royal Portrush. In it, he shared that he often wonders what the point is of wanting to win tournaments so badly — especially when he knows, deep down, that it doesn’t lead to a truly fulfilling life.
View this post on Instagram
“Is it great to be able to win tournaments and to accomplish the things I have in the game of golf? Yeah, it brings tears to my eyes just to think about it because I’ve literally worked my entire life to be good at this sport,” Scheffler said. “To have that kind of sense of accomplishment, I think, is a pretty cool feeling. To get to live out your dreams is very special, but at the end of the day, I’m not out here to inspire the next generation of golfers. I’m not out here to inspire someone to be the best player in the world, because what’s the point?”
Ironically — or perhaps perfectly — he went on to win the claret jug.
That question — what’s the point of winning? — cuts straight to the heart of the human journey.
As someone who’s spent over two decades in the trenches of professional golf, and in deep study of the mental, emotional, and spiritual dimensions of the game, I see Scottie’s inner conflict as a sign of soul evolution in motion.
I came to golf late. I wasn’t a junior standout or college All-American. At 27, I left a steady corporate job to see if I could be on the PGA Tour starting as a 14-handicap, average-length hitter. Over the years, my journey has been defined less by trophies and more by the relentless effort to navigate the deeply inequitable and gated system of professional golf — an effort that ultimately turned inward and helped me evolve as both a golfer and a person.
One perspective that helped me make sense of this inner dissonance around competition and our culture’s tendency to overvalue winning is the idea of soul evolution.
The University of Virginia’s Division of Perceptual Studies has done extensive research on reincarnation, and Netflix’s Surviving Death (Episode 6) explores the topic, too. Whether you take it literally or metaphorically, the idea that we’re on a long arc of growth — from beginner to sage elder — offers a profound perspective.
If you accept the premise literally, then terms like “young soul” and “old soul” start to hold meaning. However, even if we set the word “soul” aside, it’s easy to see that different levels of life experience produce different worldviews.
Newer souls — or people in earlier stages of their development — may be curious and kind but still lack discernment or depth. There is a naivety, and they don’t yet question as deeply, tending to see things in black and white, partly because certainty feels safer than confronting the unknown.
As we gain more experience, we begin to experiment. We test limits. We chase extreme external goals — sometimes at the expense of health, relationships, or inner peace — still operating from hunger, ambition, and the fragility of the ego.
It’s a necessary stage, but often a turbulent and unfulfilling one.
David Duval fell off the map after reaching World No. 1. Bubba Watson had his own “Is this it?” moment with his caddie, Ted Scott, after winning the Masters.
In Aaron Rodgers: Enigma, reflecting on his 2011 Super Bowl win, Rodgers said:
“Now I’ve accomplished the only thing that I really, really wanted to do in my life. Now what? I was like, ‘Did I aim at the wrong thing? Did I spend too much time thinking about stuff that ultimately doesn’t give you true happiness?’”
Jim Carrey once said, “I think everybody should get rich and famous and do everything they ever dreamed of so they can see that it’s not the answer.”
Eventually, though, something shifts.
We begin to see in shades of gray. Winning, dominating, accumulating—these pursuits lose their shine. The rewards feel more fleeting. Living in a constant state of fight-or-flight makes us feel alive, yes, but not happy and joyful.
Compassion begins to replace ambition. Love, presence, and gratitude become more fulfilling than status, profits, or trophies. We crave balance over burnout. Collaboration over competition. Meaning over metrics.
Interestingly, if we zoom out, we can apply this same model to nations and cultures. Countries, like people, have a collective “soul stage” made up of the individuals within them.
Take the United States, for example. I’d place it as a mid-level soul: highly competitive and deeply driven, but still learning emotional maturity. Still uncomfortable with nuance. Still believing that more is always better. Despite its global wins, the U.S. currently ranks just 23rd in happiness (as of 2025). You might liken it to a gifted teenager—bold, eager, and ambitious, but angsty and still figuring out how to live well and in balance. As much as a parent wants to protect their child, sometimes the child has to make their own mistakes to truly grow.
So when Scottie Scheffler wonders what the point of winning is, I don’t see someone losing strength.
I see someone evolving.
He’s beginning to look beyond the leaderboard. Beyond metrics of success that carry a lower vibration. And yet, in a poetic twist, Scheffler did go on to win The Open. But that only reinforces the point: even at the pinnacle, the question remains. And if more of us in the golf and sports world — and in U.S. culture at large — started asking similar questions, we might discover that the more meaningful trophy isn’t about accumulating or beating others at all costs.
It’s about awakening and evolving to something more than winning could ever promise.
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Jedidiah
Jul 26, 2013 at 9:02 am
Why are there so many damn beta males out there?
Ken
Jul 7, 2013 at 10:16 am
So many courses mandate the use of carts…and do it in the name of speeding up play. C’mon guys, we see through the thinly veiled revenue driver. My friends and I drive 30 miles on Saturday mornings to play a wonderful course that allows walkers. I live right next to a course that only allows hoofers at twilight. I understand that some people are not able to walk a course, but there are many that should. Courses should promote it and they would find that play speeds up due to each player going to his own ball. We’ve walked many sub 3 hour rounds.
Dennis Clark
Jul 8, 2013 at 12:04 pm
yes sir, carts slow play no question…but they are here to stay. I advocate 4 very small individual carts that allow players to drive directly to their shot!
inncfromnj
Jul 3, 2013 at 4:47 pm
Here are the problems which plague pace of play.
1. Being “married to the cart”…Instead of waiting in the cart for your partner to hit a shot then ride to your ball, get out grab some clubs and your range device. Walk to your ball, hit your shot and walk toward the hole. You partner will pick you up.
2. When the conditions warrant cart path only. Take several clubs with you to your ball. If you ball may be lost or in a hazard,take a ball with you.
3. If you are an average player and are 200 yards or more from the front of the green on a par 5, or even a long par 4. LAY UP….You are not going to “get there in two”. So forget waiting for the green to clear.
4 Play READY GOLF…This nonsense of “are you away or am I” is for the birds. Who cares!. Remember, in the rules of golf, there is no “out of turn” rule in stroke play.
5. If you are hopelessly out of the hole, pick up and take the maximum number permitted under the USGA Equitable Stroke Control formula. Most middle handicap golfers would take a triple bogey.
6. Ask the beverage cart girl to wait until all players have hit their shots, then go buy your stuff.
Don
Jul 3, 2013 at 2:58 pm
Funny the writer mentions Scotland. I believe there are a couple issues here. First, he should check how far apart tee times in scotland or the rest of Europe are booked. I know for a fact it is not the usual eight to ten minutes we get packed into here in the states. They do not try to cram over 60 tee times a day onto their courses. Second, I agree that slow play is an issue. When I play with slower partners I tell them I will pick my ball up after double par on a hole. Third, I wish everyone would play ready golf. I do think that people watching golf on tv has a lot to do with this too. Why can’t we take our practice swing or line up our ball while the rest of the foursome plays their shot. While I agree slow play is an issue, I think the biggest reason we find ourselves standing on tee boxes waiting ten to fifteen minutes is because the courses OVER book tee times.
rixirox
Jul 3, 2013 at 8:33 am
Ignorance, intolerance and a lack of golf ettiquette are “slowing the pace” of the game. Smarten up and play nice.
Marc
Jul 3, 2013 at 12:55 am
I play fast, almost always walk and play one Chicago course that doesn’t offer carts for that reason alone. Good golfers move along well in a cart. Average to poor generally don’t. It would speed up play if at the pro shop and on the 1st tee every group would be told to tee off when the group in front is out of range, not on or off the green. A new golfer that hits the ball 100 yards can be off the tee before the group in front gets to their ball. If you can’t hit them, you can hit your ball. Limit practice swings. One or two if you must is fine, but anything more is causing damage and just tiring you out. Unless you are Dennis (I still refer to your course as Marco Shores) or a pro, don’t give advice on the course and don’t take it. Practice is done at the range. On the course, you play. Play courses suited to your ability. If you are new, find a nice executive course, or wide open muni. Try to play on a weekday, it’s less crowded and you’ll have more fun. If you must tackle something beyond your ability for whatever reason, play from the tee that suits your ability (this holds true for all courses actually). Lastly, limit one tee shot per hole unless you’re taking the penalty and being true to the game. If you’re bending rules, you might as well drop one where it went out or play from where the person driving the cart landed. You can shoot 120 in under 4.5 hours if you move along, play ready golf, and eliminate 600 or 700 practice swings.
inncfromnj
Jul 3, 2013 at 5:24 pm
I always take a practice swing. It’s part of my pre shot routine. It helps with muscle memory and concentration. The routine takes maybe 10 seconds. I set and pull the trigger. Ball goes and I am in the cart before the ball stops rolling.
If I am driving the opposite pairings cart, I am off as soon as the last ball of the guys in the other cart is in the air. I don’t think it’s necessary for me to wait on a ‘pose’.
Jay Smith
Jul 2, 2013 at 6:01 pm
Unless you post signs in korean then actually police it well, good luck! The stupid comercials are lame and the goobers arent going to pay attention to it!!
szap
Jul 2, 2013 at 5:52 pm
Going back to Marty’s observation on type A personalities being the only one’s who are bothered by slow play, I am definitely a type A, but the people I regularly play with are far from it. What I find is that the slow play bothers everyone in the group, it is just the type A person who will try to say or do something about it.
marty
Jul 2, 2013 at 6:55 pm
classic type A. YOU DON’T HAVE TO FIX EVERYTHING.
inncfromnj
Jul 3, 2013 at 5:11 pm
Marty, I am ecstatic you do not play golf where I play.
Marty
Jul 7, 2013 at 2:38 pm
Me tooloooooloo
FAST PLAYER
Jul 2, 2013 at 5:43 pm
In my 50 years of playing what I have noticed is that the slow players don’t think they are slow.
duck_football_cheats
Jul 2, 2013 at 12:27 am
Courses need to do their part, too, like going with 10-minute tee time intervals (not alternating 7,8-minute) and stationing a starter to enforce that. You tee off on your appointed time, NOT when the group ahead hits their second shots. This spaces out groups, prevents bunching like a freeway on-ramp during rush hour.
Courses put the onus on players to speed up play, but they need to do their part, as well.
Jcjmw
Jul 1, 2013 at 9:42 pm
jcjmw • a day ago ?
Out on the golf course, NOTHING will change unless and until the course marshalls do something. As an example, I am a local to and regular at Rio Secco Golf Course (Butch Harmon headquarters and home course to Gulbis). Great staff there but lately the marshalls set the pace at 5 hrs. My last 3 rounds there have been 5 hours, like this morning. There was a 1.5 – 2 hole gap between the group in front of us and the next after them. When we complained to the marshall, the response was “our pace of play is 5 hours.” No, I personally know its not. I have been playing Rio for 10+ years and the pace of play used to be 4 hours. Over the years it has gotten worse. The key is the Marshall. If a golf Marshall believes 5 hours is acceptable, then no amount of TV promos or otherwise will make any actual difference on the gold course.
inncfromnj
Jul 3, 2013 at 5:10 pm
I would present my concerns to course Managers. Tell them the Marshall stated the 5 hour time frame. Make a point to alert them that there are many golfers who are unhappy with the 5 hour rounds and are considering taking their business elsewhere.
If the manager gives you any static about the time frame, call his bluff. Pull out your cell phone right there and make a tee time at another course for your foursome.
The best way to alter the business model of an establishment that eschews customer service is to no longer patronize that business.
John F
Jul 1, 2013 at 4:35 pm
A question for the author, because I have read about the pace of play being quickened by playing “ready golf” many times on GolfWRX. Most golfers aren’t that confident in their shotmaking to feel comfortable with their partners walking up the fairway as they’re shooting. How do you reconcile this with encouraging players to walk up to their ball before the furthest player shoots?
As I understand it, these pace-of-play concerns all hearken back to the problems of declining rounds and how best to “grow the game,” but saying “just play two quicker rounds” is the most tin-eared solution I’ve heard of yet. That might work for members of elite country clubs, but I doubt that preaching to country club members will grow the game much. Two rounds is 100 bucks if you bring your own cooler, and all this best-ball and alternate-shot stuff will leave you shooting a fraction of the shots. Most of the people you want to encourage to get out and play and sink money into the game are going to be hesitant to pay more than a couple bucks a hole for a round, and that would raise it to a couple bucks a shot.
Dennis Clark
Jul 1, 2013 at 7:25 pm
Confidence is not hampered by your partners walking away OUT of your sight. And if you’re talking about walking, that is not the problem; the article states CART DRIVING is slowing play. Most people would be surprised at the joy of match play and the variety of formats it offers. The individual final score obsession is something we might reconsider.
naflack
Jul 3, 2013 at 12:50 am
“declining rounds”
you nailed the point of this entire ad campaign.
they think too many of us cant see it for what it really is.
and this is coming from someone who can play a round in under 3 hours with my friends that are good sticks. but we also understand who is on the course with us, we are married to women who enjoy the game for us. they dont want to go out with us the few times they do and feel like they are “on the clock”. and good or bad these are the people that would need to play for the game to actually grow.
dont get me wrong, we have all had the groups in font of us who are terrible or completely inconsiderate and refuse to let people through but they are the exception not the norm.
if the courses were actually serious about this pace of play business they would stop putting groups out on top of each other. a group should go out every 12 minutes, no more no less.
shoeshines
Jul 1, 2013 at 9:09 am
This is a reason why golf should consist of three 6 hole courses instead of two nine hole ones, that way people can have the option to play 12 in a reasonable amount of time. The game is simply too long. There are more players now. These are principles that were played in the 1800s when the game was played by very few. No one buzzes through a course anymore. We need to modernize and establish a new pace of play.
KB
Jul 1, 2013 at 8:40 am
The old guys just yesterday were the culprit … I was teeing off with my group on 16, while they were chatting it up the a par-3 17…I wondered how long it would take them to tee off and get going. As we were putting they were still standing there – chatting, making swing movements, talking golf – with no one on the green. They didn’t tee off until we pulled up behind them in our carts.
Really?
WVUgolfer
Jul 1, 2013 at 8:23 am
Golf courses themselves can help with pace. Have beverage stands on specific holes. If the group with honors is at a stand and the tee is open the next group fills the spot. I have seen beverage carts slow play by not properly doing their jobs. Muni’s could shorten their courses. Faster carts! USGA should place an asterisk on handicaps that includes pace of play times. Dr Bob is a 7* with a 5 hour round. 22* with a 3 and a 1/2 hour round.
Dennis Clark
Jun 30, 2013 at 10:06 am
The lead group of the day is the key: If that group can go 3.5 hours and everyone keeps pace, we can tee off every 8-9 minutes and have no trouble.
Jon Silverberg
Jul 2, 2013 at 6:41 pm
Actually, that is incorrect…you cannot tee groups off faster than it takes to play the slowest par 3 (usually 9-10 minutes) without backing up the course…this is not my opinion, research shows it to be fact (it is the same principle as factory throughput depends on the time it takes for the slowest separate process)…for more, see http://www.three45golf.org…the site founder has been on The Golf Channel, writes for Golf Digest and The Met Golfer, etc.
naflack
Jul 3, 2013 at 12:28 am
+1
Grant
Jun 29, 2013 at 9:14 pm
I play as a single quite regularly. The other day I played two rounds in under 4 hrs (local muni, just over 6k yards from whites). It was very hot (100*+), weekday, and I had a cart. I was lucky enough to play through the entire way through the 2nd round. A few observations:
1. Courses need to manage how crowded the course becomes. I think the vast majority of slow play comes from course overcrowding. On particularly busy days, assistants could be used where the course bottle necks (locate t shots, monitor pace).
2. If your group has waived someone on…keep playing the hole!
3.I don’t think it’s a big deal to ask to play through. If I’m waiting on the group ahead on every shot, I’ll politely ask at the next tee.
My $.02
naflack
Jul 3, 2013 at 12:25 am
Well said…
Where is the course accountability in this issue?
Respect the golfers around you and let faster people through, its not a sign of disrespect that they are faster or better.
They may not like that you’re slow but they respect that you acknowledge it and show some etiquette
rixirox
Jul 3, 2013 at 8:24 am
I completely concur.
Dennis Clark
Jun 29, 2013 at 12:41 pm
Having played the game now for 50 years and taught it for 30, I have done everything in my power, to “teach” faster, yet still enjoyable, golf. The two are NOT mutually exclusive. The point of my article is that if more players discovered the joys of match play, it might be better for moving play along. When foursomes AND four balls are played on busy days, it helps the pace greatly. Note that in the rules of play, a conceded stroke cannot be refused or declined, so marshall them to put that putt for a 7 in their pocket:) And congrats to your group for walking and playing at that pace. Thx for comment.
marty
Jun 29, 2013 at 12:29 pm
another article about slow play? really?
there does need to be a place for the slow and beginning players where they can explore how to play the game and not be bothered by you type-A dudes.
Dennis Clark
Jun 29, 2013 at 12:45 pm
Beginning does not have to be slow if they are educated. I have new-player groups play scramble and simply tell them to keep pace with the group in front of them. Its not a personality type, it’s education and common courtesy. If you can’t see the group in front of you, you can bet there are a whole LOTTA folks close behind you.
marty
Jun 30, 2013 at 7:26 pm
disagree. part of it is definitely personality type.
and any true beginning golfer (unless you’re Jim Thorpe) will be hacking it all over the place and will by definition take a good amount of time to play a round.
just bugs me that part of the hard-earned cash that i dole out for a round of golf gets wasted on overzealous marshals who only care about making money for the course. you want to grow the game? let players regulate themselves and live with the few less paying customers you can fit on the course during the day.
rixirox
Jul 3, 2013 at 7:49 am
Just allow type A speeedballers to play through. Every courtesy observed can only help.
Eric
Jul 3, 2013 at 1:03 pm
Are you serious? What about the other players “Doling Out” their hard earned cash to stand there and wait for slow players not even trying to speed things up and are clueless on golf etequtte! If you are going to golf you should learn not only how to hit the ball and which club to use but also how to play faster and make it enjoyable for “Everyone”. Not A type personality, Common Sense, respectful personality.
inncfromnj
Jul 3, 2013 at 4:55 pm
No. They are there to move along players who think they can “take their sweet time”…Look, no one wants to wait 5 or 10 minutes to hit every shot. If you are out of position( behind an entire hole) pick up and move along or allow faster players through.
The main reason for course Marshalls is because players cannot police themselves. On a busy day, there is no reason a 4 foursome should take more than 4.5 hours to play 18 holes. 4 hours is expected.
DO the math. 15 minutes per hole is a 4.5 hour pace. 12 minutes per hole is a 3.6 hour pace. So a 4 hour round allows 13.5 mins per hole.
Ken
Jul 5, 2013 at 9:47 am
Hence why they make par 3 courses and driving ranges. Golfers brand new to the game who can barely hit the ball should not be playing 7000 yard regulation courses. It is no fun for them and it is no fun for the other golfers that are being slowed down. The chain is only as strong as its weakest link and the round of 18 is only as fast as the slowest golfer…
Dennis Clark
Jul 5, 2013 at 9:57 am
excellent observation; the courses you choose to play and the tees you choose to play from should be based on your ability and experience.
naflack
Jul 3, 2013 at 12:16 am
For a game that is looking for growth at ever turn that sure seems to be a lot of complaining about the very people you want taking the game up.
I play and prefer to play quickly but i’m a 3 index, the pace I can play at is due to my ability. To expect that of my wife who shoots a 120 simply isn’t fair. If respecting those around us by letting them through when it applies isn’t good enough then we will gladly play somewhere that appreciates our hard earned money.
end all that money to dg
naflack
Jul 3, 2013 at 12:18 am
Ignore the last line…phone issue.
Dennis Clark
Jul 5, 2013 at 10:06 am
I don’t think anyone is complaining, rather explaining. Golfers of ANY ability can learn to play faster through education. The article offers suggestions about how to do that. We had a group of “low single digits” who wanted “the first tee time so we don’t have to wait.” Granted. They played the tour tees on a 7500 yard golf course, one broke 80 and the lead group took 4 hour, 30 minutes to play. The group behind them, all average golfers playing from the white tees were on their heels all day. If everyone is educated and plays from the tees they should, play can move nicely.
G
Jun 30, 2013 at 10:58 am
Would you teach your daughter to drive on the freeway? No. You’d only let her drive the freeway when she’s ready. The same is true for golf. The driving range, and muni courses are for learning not a real golf course. “Type-A dudes,” really? Do you call everyone who can do something you can’t a compliment that you obviously mean to be derogatory? What a genius!
marty
Jun 30, 2013 at 7:19 pm
ha! if only you knew– i golf quite quickly.
seems that when i AM playing with slower golfers, the ones that get the angriest at us for ‘holding up play’ are the type-A business dudes or old farts.
rixirox
Jul 3, 2013 at 8:22 am
Ok. I am a type A, old fart business dude. I “play” golf. I play through if I am playing faster. Never encountered a slower foursome that didn’t concede to a courteous request. Season your play with grace.
ScottyBinSLC
Jul 3, 2013 at 12:10 pm
What point are you defending Marty? Being argumentative for argument’s sake does nothing. The point of the discussion and the article is to discuss the problem and potentially come up with creative ways to solve it. Personality types, “old farts”, businessmen, etc. are not the problem or even a result of the problem.
Many who take up the game and who have played for years; albeit only a few rounds a year, take extraordinarily long to play because they don’t take the time to “work” on their game. They hope to sort it out on the course. This takes what used to be a 3.5-4 hr round and turns it into 4.5-6hrs/round. That’s unfair to all others on the course who have paid their use/rental fee.
And despite your feelings about it, golf is a revenue sport. Marshals and course managers all need to be concerned about the number of rounds per year/season in order to not only keep the doors open, but to make improvements and repairs year after year.
I once again would voice that the US moves to a handicap system as it’s played in the EU. To play you present a handicap card and you are placed on the appropriate tees; i.e.: Black/championship= Plus-4.4, Blue=4.5-8.9, White=9-11.4,etc., or something there abouts. The game would be better enjoyed by all, the pressure would be reduced for all high handicappers, and egos would have less of a role.
The course could then be enjoyed and it can become a Game again for all.
marty
Jun 30, 2013 at 7:29 pm
oh, and you gotta learn to drive on the freeway at some point. no amount of parking lot (or driving range) practice will prepare you for the real thing.
“real golf course”? really? nice backhanded dis at the large portion of golfers who happen to play muni’s full-time.
marty
Jun 30, 2013 at 7:30 pm
ha! if only you knew– i golf quite quickly.
seems that when i AM playing with slower golfers, the ones that get the angriest at us for ‘holding up play’ are the type-A business dudes or old farts.
inncfromnj
Jul 3, 2013 at 5:01 pm
Most muni’s are easy to play. THat’s where people should learn the game before venturing out on more difficult courses.
Look, golf is a difficult sport to even become moderately proficient.
A newbie should not run out and play A Mike Strantz, Pete Dye or Donald Ross course as they will not enjoy the game and lose interest.
Beginning golfers should play easier tracks so the game is FUN for them. That is where I learned. On the County courses and muni’s.
inncfromnj
Jul 3, 2013 at 4:38 pm
When I was first learning the game, my Dad insisted on learning the rules of golf etiquette first. We walked so there was no issue with cart logic/use.
When I play with novice golfers, I first tell them this is supposed to be fun. No one is paying us to play on tv, so getting upset is not an option. One must learn to play fast before considering playing well.
Nothing to do with type A..A round of golf lasts the time it lasts. It is the constant waiting 5 or 10 minutes to hit a shot is what is ruining the game.
Ryan
Jun 29, 2013 at 11:39 am
I just played this morning in 2 hours 45 min. It was just a 2 some and we were the first group off. I coach high school golf and I work with my golfers on speed all the time. I tell them that if you are going to play bad at least do it fast. I totally agree with an earlier post that you have to teach people how to keep up. Most people that are slow golfers would probably be better if they took less practice swings and less time over the ball.
George
Jun 29, 2013 at 10:26 am
Interesting idea about single carts. As a Marshall I have seen things you would not imagine. I walk and carry as a 60+ year old and 12 handicap. My group usually plays our 6200 yard course in a 3 hour round during the week. When marshalling we strive to have players play 15 minute holes for a 41/2 hour round. Our Marshall’s have no Qualms about asking a slow group to stay in sync with the group ahead. Also if they don’t I will ask them to pick up and go to the next hole. Golfers need to understand that they are renting the course not buying it when they pay for a green fee. Slow play and poor golf etiquette irks Marshall’s as much as the players on the course.
roger
Jun 28, 2013 at 7:01 pm
Slow play causes problems and ruins our game also.
This Summer i have been far more assertive in giving instructions
to slow players in front of my group. Our Firm Instructions with an initial Kind Prompting has yet to be ignored!!!!
Caddyshack. The Best Sound Track ever. Thanks Kenny!
Rob
Jun 28, 2013 at 5:38 pm
Two days ago it took my friend and I 3 hours to play 9 holes due to the group of golfers infront of us. One player would literally top every single shot down the fairway as she went it took her 15 strokes just to make a green on a <300 yard par 4, and the other 3 in her group were no better. None of them played ready golf either – one person would top their shot 20 yeards then they would sit there and talk for a couple minutes then the next person would go through a whole pre-shot routine and then proceed to top her shot 20 yards they would sit there and talk for a couple minutes then the next person would go through her entire pre shot routine only to top it another 20 yards, and so it went for 3 long hours. The worst part is they would not let us play through. Many times we made it too the tee box before they had finished teeing off for the hole, they would look at us and go on their way. The worst part of it all, is the Marshall did nothing about it. He just kept saying "they are sure slow arent they?" It had to be the most frustrating experience I have ever had on the course. There is no excuse for a 5 hour round nevermind a 6 hour round. While we're young!