36 Comments

1. 

   KK

   Jan 13, 2017 at 11:12 pm

   Phones have free GPS apps now. If you’re too lazy or dumb to download a free app, that’s on you.

   Reply Report comment
2. 

   Marc Smith

   Dec 22, 2016 at 5:42 pm

   Firstly, probably a poor choice of title for an article related to DMD’s.

   Regardless of whether you have a range finder, GPS, stroke saver or even accurate yardage markers, you’re still not going to “know” the perfect line off the tee, or the subtle breaks in greens unless you’ve played the course several times before – so home advantage is still key. Just because you can see something from a great distance on a course, does not mean you know what’s there or hiding!

   So to the actual point, are DMD’s fair if all golfers don’t have them?

   You make valid points about being able to afford said items, but why is that any different to being able to afford custom fitting, the newest/best equipment to suit your swing/game or coaching?

   Non of the pro’s use a “visual” guide to yardages, so why should we, and they’re much better than us! I’ve paced yardages, used GPS and now use a range finder and I can guarantee, I’m much quicker using my range finder, even on shorter shots! The amount of times I’ve used strokesavers and stood deliberating about which tree they meant, or exactly where the back of the bunker is, definitely takes longer than zapping the flag.

   Slow play is not caused by using DMD’s, just look at the pro’s, most PGA rounds are 4.5 hours at best and they’re not using them – I’d actually like to see them used to help speed up play! Most slow golfers I know are not slow due to using too many devices, it’s because they wait until it’s their turn then decide to start their routine!

   Golf is hard, even for the lower handicap amateur golfers! So just like cavity backs, large sweets spots, drivers with offset and counter balanced putters, why shouldn’t we be able to see exactly how far we’ve got to a flag? Because, no matter how good the yardage/equipment, it all comes down to how you execute the shot – and we all know there’s no guarantees there

   Reply Report comment
3. 

   Brad

   Dec 22, 2016 at 8:27 am

   We use tech to save time. That is the point of technology. Tour players have there caddies running from the next fairway over to get yardages to the green, if amateurs did that people would be hitting into them.

   Reply Report comment
4. 

   creeder

   Dec 22, 2016 at 7:34 am

   i am all for tech. Now, for most players and i mean 90% percent. knowing that the shot is 67 yard verses 52 yards. is not going to make much difference.

   Reply Report comment
5. 

   TR1PTIK

   Dec 21, 2016 at 9:16 pm

   I don’t think you’re going to find too many sympathizers on here. BTW, your example of a coach does not apply in a weekend foursome or a dozen+ other scenarios. Also, don’t pros have caddies that walk off yardages for them – and hasn’t that pretty much always been the case? Your argument about slowing pace of play is flawed as well because if players are constantly air-mailing greens or dunking shots in the pond, then they probably aren’t going to be keeping pace with the group in front.

   Reply Report comment
6. 

   DJ

   Dec 21, 2016 at 7:13 pm

   so you’re voting for slow play. unfortunately i can’t pay a caddie nothing when i’m playing for fun. if we do play for money – $5 or $10 – should i give the caddie 5% or 10% ? that’s a hole ‘nother discussion (spelled “hole” like that on purpose). if everyone is using one or has the option to use one, then let the purist be coming up short on those approaches.

   btw…use them on the tours.

   Reply Report comment
7. 

   Matt

   Dec 21, 2016 at 3:51 pm

   In my experience on my home course elevation changes, wind direction and green surface play more of a role than just distance alone.

   Reply Report comment
8. 

   SV

   Dec 21, 2016 at 3:37 pm

   In general the technology probably speeds up play if you don’t know the course. On your home course I don’t know what effect it would have. Personally I prefer GPS because I have the yardage instantly. Getting the laser focused in takes longer with my shaky hands.

   Reply Report comment
9. 

   BIG STU

   Dec 21, 2016 at 3:31 pm

   Farmer is dead on it. I can take you to my home course that I have played for 14 years now. You can have as many range finders and GPS units you want but there are some things that only come with local knowledge. There are places on those greens because of the undelation that I would rather be 20 foot from the pin in the right place than 10 feet in the wrong place. Also with the ocean only 1.5 miles away there are certain wind patterns on certain holes that without local knowledge will jump up and bite you. Also on that course any GPS unit will be about 10% off. Us local members learned that back in the infancy days of GPS when we had them on the carts. And it still holds true today with a hand held GPS or a watch type ones. We have done proved it too many times. Laser finders seem to work well

   Reply Report comment
10. 

    Andrew

    Dec 21, 2016 at 3:02 pm

    When will the PGA allow range finders? The amount of time pro’s waste measuring yardage is a joke. The technology is there, use it. I watch the PGA for the shot making not for the player’s ability or caddy for that matter, to measure the distance to the pin. Please no more 6 hour rounds in PGA tournaments.

    Reply Report comment
    • 

      Joey5Picks

      Dec 22, 2016 at 3:19 pm

      They aren’t “wasting” time getting a yardage. They’re deciding club, where to land it, whether it should sit or run out. Those wouldn’t be affected by using a rangefinder. Rarely do tour pros need only the yardage to the hole. They get the yardage to a spot on the green, the front, how much to carry a bunker, how far to a ridge on the green. Only a yardage book tells you those.

      Reply Report comment
11. 

    James

    Dec 21, 2016 at 2:17 pm

    How many kids have you told to get off your lawn recently?

    Reply Report comment
12. 

    Kevin

    Dec 21, 2016 at 2:03 pm

    Yes, people can get a little crazy with using their rangefinder. But, due to the rangefinder and GPS era, a reasonable number of courses have stopped maintaining their yardage markers or have simply done away with them. Would it be fair to ask all these courses to pay up to put in a yardage marking system, which although it is not hugely expensive, it is an unnecessary cost on an already very tight budget.

    Most groups I play in we rely on one person with one range finder although most of us have one ourselves. They give us a distance from their ball or a common area between everyone and we figure it out from there.

    You are saying that the technology for a new player may be counter productive to their development, do you also take the same stance on game improvement irons? Should we start every junior golfer off with a set of Wilson blades so they can get a true understanding of where the game has come from?

    I understand your argument, but I believe that it is a flawed argument from the start as you are only looking at one very small aspect of the entire game of golf. You say that someone is paying for performance. Welcome to the game of golf! Lessons cost money, practice costs money, everything cost money. And, although you can remain competitive with equipment you can buy off the used rack from 3 years ago, look at how many people have ordered PXG 2-3 times the cost because they think it gives them the smallest of advantages on the course.

    I think the rangefinder is a huge plus for the game of golf. I think you learn more about your game and can grow more if you use one. With courses becoming more and more difficult, more and more deceiving with false fronts and bunkers hiding the front of the green, the rangefinder has almost become an essential part of any golfers equipment who is trying to improve their game.

    Reply Report comment
    • 

      Jack

      Dec 22, 2016 at 9:39 am

      I agree I don’t miss having to find a mud covered sprinkler cover only to find that that one isn’t marked. Nothing slows play down like when I bring the wrong set of 3 clubs that I thought was within the range but really none of them were playable.

      Reply Report comment
13. 

    Justwellsy

    Dec 21, 2016 at 1:33 pm

    I would argue that using a laser rangefinder speeds up pace of play, not the other way around. I don’t even think you can argue otherwise. If you’re not using a laser rangefinder, that’s your own fault. I found a used one online for $75 that works perfectly fine when I compared with with my buddy’s brand new $400 model. College kids are allowed to use rangefinders during tournaments and a lot of other amateur tournaments are now allowing them as well. I think it’s great for the game.

    GPS is a different story. It’s not nearly as accurate as laser and you never know when the reading has recalculated (at least on the models I’ve used). They’ve been off by as many as 7 yards when I compare to my laser. If you hit the ball 3 fairways over, yes I agree you should suffer the consequences and not have a GPS to guide you. HOWEVER, if you’re a serious golfer, taking the time to gauge any sort of distance to the green from there is going to take some time and inevitably slow down play. So I guess I’m torn when it comes to that.

    I’m all for speeding up the game in any way possible and laser is a fantastic way to do this. I also happen to agree with a previous comment that stated home course advantage is more about knowing the breaks in the greens and how the fairways roll out, etc. Anyone can figure out raw distance if you take long enough, which is the biggest problem in golf that we are trying to fix. Don’t get me wrong, I wish courses were 25 holes and a par of 100. I want to be out there playing as many holes as possible because I love it, but that’s not for everyone. Some people like playing 9 holes and will only play 18 if they can get it done in a timely manner. Top Golf is so successful partly because you can choose how long you want to be there. With golf, half of the enjoyment for me is coming out with a score at the end of the round. Sometimes that takes 4 hours and sometimes it takes closer to 6.

    Reply Report comment
14. 

    farmer

    Dec 21, 2016 at 12:11 pm

    The biggest advantage for playing a home course is knowing the greens, where to miss and the proper lines. Not the raw distance to the target.

    Reply Report comment
    • 

      McPickens

      Dec 21, 2016 at 2:30 pm

      exactly

      Reply Report comment
15. 

    Chris

    Dec 21, 2016 at 11:35 am

    Nice start, but it kinda came off as a bit preachy, and not just because you used the word ‘preach’ a few times. Better to hint at the potential problems with tech than to declare it.

    Having used Golfshot since early 2010, I wouldn’t think of dropping the extra benefits I get from the tech. I believe it has allowed me to play faster, not slower. I can pinpoint within seconds twenty different distances, instead of wasting time running around looking for a sprinkler head that may or may not be marked, only to then walk off the yardage to my ball, and then begin the process of trying to calculate in my head the likely yardage to various trees and hazards protecting the green, the front, back and pin location.

    That and I now have a complete record of the hundreds of rounds I’ve played, with scores, notes, foursomes, photos, stats, etc.

    Peace

    Reply Report comment
    • 

      Double Mocha Man

      Dec 21, 2016 at 6:05 pm

      Your last sentence gave you away. How much do you delay your group inputting all that info? I have a friend with the same app and there’s no camaraderie, no banter, no chit chat between holes… his face is buried in his Golfshot app. And worse, I don’t think he uses any of the stats ’cause he keeps getting worse. That’s my nickel’s worth.

      Reply Report comment
      • 

        Scott

        Jan 5, 2017 at 3:47 pm

        Double, I think that I play with the same guy. Mr. Tech Stat guy. I love it when he starts telling me how he has play the hole the last so many times, but can do noting with the info.

        Reply Report comment
16. 

    Bijan Matin

    Dec 21, 2016 at 11:27 am

    Hi bubba, thanks for the feedback. However don’t you think having a solid short game isn’t a part of home course advantage, but purely the mark of a good golfer? In terms of knowing where to miss, I have to agree with you there, valid point. Iron distance is fairly consistent I agree, but Dave Peltz also placed a lot of emphasis on the fact that from say 130 in distance becomes far more inconsistent and therefore more important than missing left or right. Obviously I know this is split between the golfer having the shot and knowing the distance, do you think this has any weighting in the discussion? Thanks for the feedback, I didn’t think many would agree with my perspective!

    Reply Report comment
    • 

      Double Mocha Man

      Dec 21, 2016 at 6:13 pm

      Good point on skewed home course handicaps. Maybe the USGA just needs to start adding 2 strokes to every home round we play???

      On the other hand, if i want to play a “money” round with a guy I try to get him onto a neutral course.

      Reply Report comment
17. 

    Charlie

    Dec 21, 2016 at 10:39 am

    Is this article about pace of play, or home course advantage?

    I know at my home course where I can miss two fairways over and still have a shot into the green. I also know what hills have been mowed closely so the ball will bounce back into the fairway or on the green. So no, home course advantage is not dead.

    Oh, and laser rangefinders absolutely speed up pace of play.

    Reply Report comment
    • 

      Bijan Matin

      Dec 21, 2016 at 11:16 am

      Hi Charlie, it’s a bit of both. This is my first article so I’m still finding my feet, working on it!
      I appreciate that in your case you know where you can miss and still hit into greens, but does your opponent who may have never played at your course deserve that advantage from a bad tee shot purely because they paid for a gps watch? In my experience in some cases range finders may speed up play. However, from playing far too many four hour plus rounds as a three ball, havent you ever experienced someone who uses one excessively? I find especially in matches people will laser pins from 30 yards to 260+, which has certainly added a significant amount of time to rounds.
      Just a bit of background for my perspective, thanks again for the feedback.

      Reply Report comment
      • 

        Ron

        Dec 21, 2016 at 11:43 am

        Of course he deserves to the advantage! As golfers we all strike the play the best possible golf we can; doing that includes using all the legal equipment available to help achieve that. It should not matter if you use this equipment at your own course or elsewhere. I can’t in good conscience hold it against someone for using a legal tool.

        Reply Report comment
        • 

          Ron

          Dec 21, 2016 at 4:32 pm

          Another thing… Knowing the distances are a small thing when talking about home course advantage. The real advantage resides in knowing bounces and what greens will do.

          Reply Report comment
      • 

        aaron

        Dec 21, 2016 at 3:43 pm

        I think that is a really silly argument…..by your logic you’re saying the most difficult thing and the biggest advantage in golf is knowing the distances……again that is silly, if your opponent hit his tee shot in the trees off the fairway he doesn’t have an “easy” shot by knowing the distance, he still has the trees, lie, other impediments to deal with and then execute a shot out of those areas…..and any good course would have a yardage book identifying each hole and the hazards it has….Like others have said home course advantage has always been on and around the greens, how a fairway slopes and which clubs to take off the tee for the best and most likely approach (those things would never be replaced by a device) and as far as pace of play goes- it isn’t the pinging of yardage that slows up play…it is the not knowing what distances you hit clubs, the indecisiveness of what shot you think you can hit, the 47 practice swings, and the list goes on and on but not one of them is the 2-3 seconds it takes to acquire the yardage

        Congrats on the first article and look forward to more articles and more discussions

        Reply Report comment
18. 

    Bryan

    Dec 21, 2016 at 10:37 am

    My rangefinder has undoubtedly sped up my pace of play. I use the scorecard or yardage book on most tee-shots to try to hit a shot to a certain yardage and area on the fairway for the approach shot, and then use my rangefinder on shots to the green. It takes me literally less than 10 seconds to stand over my ball and get the distance. This is much less time than walking around to find a marker, pacing it off or eyeballing it, and then questioning the accuracy of the marker to begin with. I do agree that it can be an unfair advantage if someone does not have it. But I know in my league if one team has it, the other team can ask for the GPS, or rangefinder distance at any time during the round.

    Then there is also the effect that I am confident in the club/shot selection and don’t think about the yardage and selection as much as if I were using the poorly, or non-labeled markers on the courses around here.

    Reply Report comment
    • 

      Bijan Matin

      Dec 21, 2016 at 11:55 am

      Thanks for the feedback Bryan, I appreciate that for you it is a quick process. Maybe in this case I have just been cursed by having to deal with painstakingly slow rangefinder-ers, in my experience many who have a rangefinder go into ‘pro’ mode and usually follow up a 45 second lasering of the flag, all geeenside bunkers, with around ten practice swings and so many waggles that I can’t tell if my dogs tail has made it into the guys hands!

      In competition, sad to say I have been on a side that does this- players would often stay away from their partners, you might get a yardsage on a par 3 by over hearing, bar that we wouldn’t give nor would they give anything. At university we would plan our pairings based on each paring having a range finder in the group.

      Again, good points there, by the sounds of things your routine is far more efficient as are others in the comment section than what I have experienced!

      Reply Report comment
      • 

        Bryan

        Dec 27, 2016 at 1:20 pm

        Thanks for the reply. I think its shady if you’re playing someone with one and they don’t offer it up for use. Not the type of guys I would want to golf with for sure. I also do know the guys with looooonnnnnnggg pre-shot routines. Unfortunately finding the yardage might be the fastest part of it.

        For the most part I have eliminated taking full practice swing from my routine. After watching the Pros live I could see they don’t really do that much. More of a stay loose little half swing. On feel shots around the green I still do, but that is more or less to get a feel for lie more than anything else. It has actually worked for me too… far fewer wasted good swings on a practice swing.

        Reply Report comment
19. 

    DeeJayMN

    Dec 21, 2016 at 10:26 am

    Wow, this article is awful, and based on the 15 shanks so far, i’m not alone. To each their own, if someone wants to use these aids, who cares, golf is hard enough. In my experience it speeds up play, allows golfers to learn their true club yardages, and helps correct the incorrect markers that are on the course that are usually outdated due to changes to the course. You obviously don’t have a good pulse on todays golfer and maybe your next article should be focused on why your missing the big picture.

    Reply Report comment
    • 

      Bijan Matin

      Dec 21, 2016 at 11:07 am

      As this is my first article, I appreciate the feedback and will do my best to learn from it moving forwards. And in terms of pace of play, I work for a business on the verge of releasing an app for golf clubs. In this we have been considering which features to carry forwards, from contacting a variety of golf courses I have found that they do in fact feel these aids are slowing pace of play. Obviously your circle and others here have different perspectives but from my experience here in the U.K. . Dealing with clubs, they feel that when range finders in particular come into play people use them excessively and this does slow the pace of play down in enough cases for them to become concerned. Please note that I’m not arguing here, this is just where my thoughts were founded.
      – again, any constructive feedback or perspective welcome.

      Reply Report comment
      • 

        DeeJayMN

        Dec 21, 2016 at 12:03 pm

        Fair enough and I appreciate the response but what bothered me most about your article was the claim that your not THAT guy when it comes to using distance aids, and minimizing your own ownership of these aids to the fact that you won your GPS. I think whats lost in your article a little bit is that golf is meant to be fun, and beating people at your home course should be a side effect of this fun not your modus operandi for dictating how others choose to play. I’ll admit some defensiveness to the article due to the fact that I use and love my rangefinder and would be remiss not to admit that.

        Reply Report comment
20. 

    cb

    Dec 21, 2016 at 9:58 am

    on the flip side rangefinders can just as easily speed up the place of play. hitting over a water hazard for example, if you dont have the correct yardage there is the chance you can hit the correct shot but come up short then you have to hit again. obviously even when people have the correct yardage we still hit it in the water. also you want people to go out and play different courses and grow the game but nothing is worse then going to a course and not being able to fully enjoy it because you have no idea about the yardages. personally, unless im being paid to play golf, if i pay $50 for a round of golf then im taking my rangefinder so i dont spend my time looking for sprinkler heads or guessing yardages

    Reply Report comment
21. 

    PineStreetGolf

    Dec 21, 2016 at 9:51 am

    This has to be the stupidest article ever published on this typically solid website.

    Reply Report comment
    • 

      Buck

      Dec 21, 2016 at 12:16 pm

      It is better than any of the advertisements masquerading as articles, like the Adidas Boa trash.

      Reply Report comment

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.