39 Comments

1. 

   Adam

   Jan 16, 2017 at 2:06 am

   So….uhhh….when/how do you pay? Do you pay after the round? What’s to stop someone from getting stuck behind a slow group, saying ‘eff this’ and just walking to their car and driving off? I’m assuming you’re going to have to submit a credit card as a deposit which, in my experience in the pro shop, is going to piss a lot of people off.

   It’s a nice idea, but there are a lot of obstacles to overcome with this one.

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2. 

   Matto

   Jan 15, 2017 at 4:27 am

   Yearly rate offered year round. Thank god.

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3. 

   Jim

   Jan 15, 2017 at 12:23 am

   Greatest thing I ever saw, last week we teed off behind the men’s club at our local public. We figured it would be the same slow round as always as we had to stand in almost every fairway and watch these “PROS” on the greens (you know every club is playing for that $1.00 skin so each member has to wait his turn to put which always seems to mean he starts reading his right after the guy before misses his and marks his 4 inch putt) Out of no where the general manager jumps in his cart speeds out to the guys in the men’s club and tells them to let us play through???? He then followed us to the next tee and had us play through another men’s club 4 some. He told us he had laid down the law to the men’s and women’s club that they would keep up with everyone on the course and play under 4 hours 20 minutes or loose their Tuesday and Wednesday prime morning tee times……never thought I would see or hear that…..Sweet Home Alabama

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4. 

   8thehardway

   Jan 14, 2017 at 10:47 am

   Send in the drones. Require carts until 11AM and equip them with GPS units that alert the pro shop when out of position by five minutes. Mgr dispatches speaker-equipped drone which identifies offending golfer(s) and blares “Hit the damn ball” every two minutes until they pick up the pace.

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   • 

     Double Mocha Man

     Jan 14, 2017 at 2:30 pm

     I love the drone concept! Golf Course Assistants (Marshalls) certainly won’t do that.

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5. 

   Uhit

   Jan 14, 2017 at 8:24 am

   Steve,

   you can overcome this problem, if you only charge extra money for slow play, for every minute that the group finishes the round later, than the group in front of them.

   Example:
   10 minutes starting time rhytm, but leaving the last green 15 minutes behind the group in front (5 minutes too late)… …causes 40$ penalty – on a course with a green fee of 80$

   This way, a slow group could even benefit from letting a faster group, play through…

   …to avoid penalyzing a fast group, that was just overtaking a slower one on hole 17,
   you can either take the whole playing time into account, or inform, that overtaking after hole 15 may not be a good idea, if there is a huge gap between the slow group in front and the next group in front of the slow group.

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6. 

   Egor

   Jan 14, 2017 at 1:25 am

   On the surface, terrible idea.

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7. 

   Dave R

   Jan 13, 2017 at 10:52 pm

   Perfect. Soulation solved !”,,,,,,,,,,,, no more slow play?????????????

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   • 

     rymail00

     Jan 15, 2017 at 12:37 am

     I agree, unless your stuck behind a group that’s incredibly slow, and doesn’t actually play a lot of golf. I’d hate to pay more for a round because a group that’s a hole or possly 4 holes ahead of me is slow as hell.

     Also it might persuade me from wanting to play with friends who may be new to the game. Knowing that we may be looking for balls in the wods more often because the “new golfer” is spraying them everywhere, and that adds time to looking for their ball, and that then comes out of my pocket as well as people behind us.

     Actually the more I think of it, it’s a bad idea. Especially if Golf is trying to “Grow The Game”. No better way to discourage newcomers then to say if “if play bad, it’ll cost me and my buddies more to play”.

     But to play devils advocate, if it was only “good players” on the course that don’t have to look for balls, and can play a in an average of 3- 3.5 hours around, then *%^$&*@ awesome. But you know tha’ll never…..ever….happen day in and day out.consistently.

     Also how can people enjoy themseles when you are “constantly on the clock”? It’s like winter golf on the simulators that charge by the hour. People get annoyed when some someone has to take p!ss or sh!t, get food, or whatever that may delay their game.

     I can see how this could be great!! But, at the same time it causing waaaaay more problems than benefits.

     JMHO

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8. 

   Brian

   Jan 13, 2017 at 9:29 pm

   Can you imagine the temper flares regarding slow play under this pay scheme? People get mad enough at slow groups. I can only assume they’ll be irate if it costs them money on top of the frustration of slow play.

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9. 

   Ben Hogan

   Jan 13, 2017 at 7:05 pm

   Slow play is an excuse. The #1 reason slow play exists is not playing Stableford. If players have no incentive beyond a bogey, they’ll move on.

   If you have a handicap, and you can index down an extra shot or two within Stableford, you are not the problem. If you are a casual walk-on, you should only get points, and points only count if you bogey or better.

   Slow play is only a function of our obsession of playing stroke golf. If the PGA started playing Stableford full time, golf would have a problem of feeling rushed on courses, like it is in Japan. Don’t whine about the fix; just mandate Stableford, and we are ALL better for it.

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10. 

    Ben Hogan

    Jan 13, 2017 at 7:04 pm

    Slow play is BS. The #1 reason slow play exists is not playing Stableford. If players have no incentive beyond a bogey, they’ll move on.

    If you have a handicap, and you can index down an extra shot or two within Stableford, you are not the problem. If you are a casual walk-on, you should only get points, and points only count if you bogey or better.

    Slow play is only a function of our obsession of playing stroke golf. If the PGA started playing Stableford full time, golf would have a problem of feeling rushed on courses, like it is in Japan. Don’t whine about the fix; just mandate Stableford, and we are ALL better for it.

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    • 

      Ron

      Jan 18, 2017 at 2:58 pm

      Playing equitable stroke from your handicap would do the same thing. If you can’t card anything more than 7, for example, pick up when you get to 7 and move on.

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11. 

    Double Mocha Man

    Jan 13, 2017 at 5:54 pm

    Make it like an Olympic figure skating event. Once, just once, an official follows a golfer and rates that golfer 1 to 10. The faster players get a green card. Mid-speed players a yellow card. And the slo-pokes end up with a red card. Next time you go online or call for a reservation you’re asked your card color (which is already on record). If you’re green you get to go off early (or whenever you want); yellow you go off mid-day. If you carry a red card your slow butt gets to tee off at twilight.

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    • 

      Double Mocha Man

      Jan 13, 2017 at 5:56 pm

      Oh, and the red card folks are issued a flashlight.

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    • 

      Brian

      Jan 13, 2017 at 9:32 pm

      Needlessly complicated. Simply penalize the slow group the day of. If I get your “red” card, I just don’t play that course any more.

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      • 

        Double Mocha Man

        Jan 13, 2017 at 11:02 pm

        Ahh, but that red card applies to all the courses within a 30 mile radius. Once a year you can apply to have your card upgraded to a different color. Simple. It encourages everyone to qualify for a green card… which means, yep, they’ve learned how to play 18 holes in under 4.5 hours. Kinda like maintaining a good credit record.

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        • 

          Tal

          Jan 16, 2017 at 3:33 am

          So 1 red card caused by a slow friend and you can’t play anymore?

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          • 

            Double Mocha Man

            Jan 16, 2017 at 2:24 pm

            No. The official who follows you uses a checklist which only grades YOUR speed and YOUR predisposition for golf without delay. You could play a 6 hour round with slow friends and still score a green card! (the default speed of a foursome is the speed of the slowest golfer… this system looks at the individual)

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          • 

            Double Mocha Man

            Jan 16, 2017 at 2:33 pm

            Tai… a red card doesn’t stop you from playing. You just have to play when other slow golfers are on the course. Makes sense, yes? But the incentive is to move up to yellow or green and open up a broader range of tee times for yourself. So it’s positive reinforcement instead of most plans that are negative. Being the proud owner of a green card is like getting to brag about your 5 handicap. Nevertheless, you could be a 90’s shooter and still have the green (fast player) card.

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12. 

    Double Mocha Man

    Jan 13, 2017 at 3:42 pm

    Humans have their own internal pace. Virtually nothing we do will change it. A golfer’s not going to give up his/her requisite number of practice swings. A golfer, out for an afternoon stroll, is not going to speed up his/her pace. A golfer who has no “rear view mirror” isn’t going to put his/her clubs next to the green on the way to the next tee… or feel much pressure from those playing behind him/her because they simply don’t see that trailing group.

    Though a few dozen articles in different golf magazines with Top 100 teaching pros extolling the amateur benefits of playing faster to score lower might get their attention. Things will speed up only when it’s something you want to do for YOURSELF.

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13. 

    Rich Douglas

    Jan 13, 2017 at 2:48 pm

    The fundamental, underlying belief about slow play is that it is the fault of the other guy. This system is designed for failure–and anger–unless slow players are dealt with.

    I like the idea of coming out and removing people from the course if they exceed a maximum time limit, but that will also anger customers–who will likely not return.

    And that’s the crux of the issue: golf courses don’t want to anger slow players, so the rest of us suffer.

    Oh, and the things that are needed to support this system–like removing slow players–can be done with the traditional system. But again, golf courses won’t do it. It’s not the other guy’s fault–it’s the management’s fault.

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14. 

    BC

    Jan 13, 2017 at 12:13 pm

    Our foursome is playing through you guys because you’re playing too damn slow. Oh no you’re not, because that will delay us and cost us more money! Yes we are – just watch us!!! Multiple fist fights develop, EMS and cops arrive. Seven foursomes are backed-up on the 13th tee box. Video on 6 pm local news.

    This is a very stupid idea.

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    • 

      Tim

      Jan 14, 2017 at 12:32 am

      it amazing how many public courses cannot afford Marshals anymore and you run into more and more slow play. I love the starter at our local muni “I am here to observe not enforce” We face the dam five some thing almost everyday of the week now…and now it is 6 some’s some mornings, a foursome tees off and the two some behind them joins up when out of site of starter…and of course a phone call to the pro shop always brings the same reply, we are short handed since minimum wage went up but we will send someone out when we can (17 or 18th hole). Play through you say, none of us speak Korean and they pretend not to under stand what play through means….

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15. 

    Jay

    Jan 13, 2017 at 12:05 pm

    If they have 2 courses, should set a “limit” for each. If you choose to play this course, you will play in 3.5 hours, or be removed from the course at that time. If you want a “normal” round, then play the other course. Flip the courses daily so people can still play both.

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16. 

    GolfnRide

    Jan 13, 2017 at 11:41 am

    This pay by the hour idea only works if it is reversed actually – where you pay less for playing faster. For example, say the green fee is $100, you get charged $100 and if you play in under 4.5 hrs each member of your group gets $15 back after the round and if you play in under 4 hrs you get $20. This wouldn’t be a straight up refund but a credit toward your next round or a gift certificate. This type of system could be good especially for the first hour or 2 of tee times where the of the day is set. You could call it a “speeding ticket” but it would actually have a positive rather than negative connotation. It would require careful monitoring – like EXACT start and finish times and is still not without flaws (like if you get a slow group of members out early that have already paid dues for the season and just don’t care). Could be an interesting experiment..,

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    • 

      Biddles

      Jan 13, 2017 at 12:31 pm

      Making up numbers, if a typical round is 5 hours and $100 ($20/hr), under the system in the article if you finish in 4 hours you would pay $80. Under your system, you’d pay $100 and then get $20 back, equaling $80. It’s the same thing effectively. And most importantly, it still suffers from the same fundamental problem… what happens when you get stuck behind slow play? It doesn’t matter if you want to play in under 4 hours when you’re stuck behind a couple groups that are going to come in at 5 and 1/2.

      An open and honest discussion about expected pace of play in the clubhouse prior to the round, and rangers enforcing the policy seems to be the best way to address it. If you want to play on a Sunday afternoon when the course is packed, do not be surprised to be told you -have- to play faster (or pick up) by a ranger when you’re on pace for a 5+ hour round. If you don’t like it, come back when the course is less busy, or don’t come back at all. You can post times on the scorecards, post clocks around the course, but all of that is meaningless if nobody is enforcing it fairly and effectively.

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      • 

        GolfnRide

        Jan 13, 2017 at 2:06 pm

        For sure Biddles in that 5 hr round example both ideas work out to be quite similiar. In my opinion they differ by not penalizing the slow players but rewarding timely play. For example should a round take 6 hrs (ugghh- but I have been stuck in many 6 hr rounds) then maybe through no fault of your own group according to the article and at $20/hr they would have to pay $120, or at 5.5 hrs they would still have to pay $110. I also look at it from the operator standpoint, where by my “speeding ticket” example they would not be able to use it on the day it was issued but for another round, so it would be bringing back business. Slow play in my mind is the biggest problem in the game and I have walked off courses mid round, and Im not saying this is the answer – but as of yet I have not seen a good soution anywhere for slow play, which tells me that one doesnt yet exist otherwise it would be a non issue and we wouldn’t even be discussing it. Check out the website of
        coppercreek.ca and under the golf dropdown check out their 4.5 hr round guarantee – where they actually pay you if your round takes more than 4.5 hrs.

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17. 

    Jeb Springfield

    Jan 13, 2017 at 10:26 am

    How about pay kids to be spotters on par 4s and 5s where there is thick rough or foliage. Seems like most average golfers spend 2-5 minutes per hole looking for their ball in the rough, that would speed things up.

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18. 

    Ron

    Jan 13, 2017 at 9:59 am

    As someone said already, slow play needs to be addressed and enforced BY the course. Personally I like the timeclocks every 3 or so holes to let you know whether or not you are on pace. Otherwise groups usually only check their pace after 9 holes. Then you need a marshal driving around enforcing. But marshals need to be able to get to the root of the problem. If there is a slow group on the course, the ten groups behind them are going to be off pace. I’ve been warned before from a novice marshal to “pick up the pace” when we were waiting on every shot…

    Oh and to the article itself, worst idea EVER.

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19. 

    LD

    Jan 13, 2017 at 9:42 am

    As others have stated, this will create more problems than it will solve.
    Hire some rangers and start enforcing the pace of play. I would pay a little more for a course that is well enforced.

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20. 

    Lydell

    Jan 13, 2017 at 9:37 am

    Slow play bothers everyone but the slow golfers, that is the key. If golf courses don’t address what the pace of play is for their course openly, the slow play will never change. I don’t understand why golf courses (I play mostly up and down the east coast) are willing to tick off a majority of their customers instead of addressing the slow play with the normally few offenders. If the desired play is discussed openly at the register, confirmed at the starter and reminded on the course, it will get better. Some courses do have a written PoP goal; it’s written, may be on the card, but THE COURSE doesn’t want to talk about the elephant in the room. On our own, golfers get easily lost in time. Those betting begin to think they are playing at the Masters. The PofP must be stated and communicated. If you loose a few slow foursomes, you will easily make up the revenue with golfers who want to play at your stated time. Just tell golfers what the goal is, and help make it work. The $per hour model won’t speed up the slow golfers I am afraid, and will chase the customers they should want to keep.

    But what is a slow golfer? To a twosome playing behind four foursomes @a 4hr pace, they are slow. The management has to be active to make it work. Some resorts are good at putting together the groups, and keeping everyone moving. Why not more? It’s a business. Non-resort courses have to come up with their own plan, where golfers go elsewhere when their reputation becomes slow.

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21. 

    Ron

    Jan 13, 2017 at 9:32 am

    When I first read this, I thought, “Oh, that’s brilliant.” Then I started to think about the issues others have brought up here. Oh. Yeah. If the group in front of my are glacially slow, not only will that cost me money, but they won’t let me play through, because the wait will cost them money.

    Maybe, instead, one flat rate for 18 holes, with a penalty of $x for every hole you’re behind the group in front of you when you get to 18?

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    • 

      Rich Douglas

      Jan 13, 2017 at 2:53 pm

      This is my thinking. You get a small rebate at the end for finishing in position behind the group ahead of you. If your group is behind, you don’t collect.

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22. 

    3-Jack

    Jan 13, 2017 at 9:04 am

    Stupidest idea I’ve ever heard of. Try it on miniature golf course where it belongs!

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23. 

    NolanMBA

    Jan 13, 2017 at 8:44 am

    Its worth a try!

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24. 

    Steve Rawlinson

    Jan 13, 2017 at 8:43 am

    That is totally ridiculous. Unless there’s big gap in front of my two-ball I’m going to be playing at the pace of the slowest group in front of me. Also, those slow groups are never going to let faster groups play through because the 5 minute wait while they do will be costing them money. It’s in the direct financial interest of the course for play to be slow.

    Other than that it’s a great idea *eyeroll*

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    • 

      Josh

      Jan 13, 2017 at 9:19 am

      Great points.

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    • 

      Uhit

      Jan 13, 2017 at 6:38 pm

      You can overcome this problem, if you only charge extra money for slow play, for every minute that the group finishes the round later, than the group in front of them.
      –
      Example: 10 minutes starting time rhytm, but leaving the last green 15 minutes behind the group in front (5 minutes too late)… …causes 40$ penalty – on a course with a green fee of 80$
      This way, a slow group could even benefit from letting a faster group, play through…
      🙂
      …to avoid penalyzing a fast group, that was just overtaking a slower one on 17,
      you can either take the whole playing time into account, or inform, that overtaking after hole 15 may not be a good idea, if there is a huge gap between the slow group in front and the next group in front of the slow group.
      😉

      Reply Report comment

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