Opinion & Analysis
Why a Tiger-Butch Reunion Won’t Happen
In the hours following the news of a Tiger Woods-Sean Foley split, the cry was neither quiet, nor subtle: TIGER, RETURN TO BUTCH HARMON!
The overwhelming fan chorus advocating Woods’ return to one of his first swing coaches is not exactly a new concept, as the voices have tended to rise from the fog any time the 14-time major champion experienced a period of poor play over the last decade. But the chatter here appears as strong as ever, with Woods’ game in complete disarray, his inability to capture major No. 15 growing more harrowing by the day and his third divorce from a swing instructor now complete.
The lineup for a reunion with Harmon has organized itself immaculately, except for one issue: There’s no way it happens. Anthony Kim has a better chance of winning the Grand Slam next year than of the formation of Tiger Woods-Butch Harmon, Part Deux.
If I’m crushing any dreams, I’m sorry in advance. But the reality here is bleak.
Since his split with Harmon in 2002, Woods has expressed no desire, not even a hint, that he wishes to return to his swing coach of nearly a decade. And the feeling goes both ways. Harmon hasn’t iterated any longing for a reunion, and he’s already shot down the possibility that now might be the time for his re-pairing with Woods.
Actually, Harmon has distanced himself pretty much as far as he could from Woods in the immediate aftermath of his most recent coaching divorce. Not only did the 70-year-old choose to make his praise of Foley’s work abundantly public, but he also stated his desire to see Woods move forward without a coach. In Harmon’s words then, Woods’ future success is less hindered without a watchful eye over his shoulder, even if those set of binoculars are some of the game’s best.
You can’t always trust people on their initial public pronouncments (See: Saban, Nick), but Harmon’s jetting so quickly away from Woods would be an odd move for a man who wishes to once again control Tiger’s swing.
More than a general lack of mutual interest though, both sides appear intent on severing their past links. Woods is famous for his ability to hold and maintain grudges. Just ask former caddie Stevie Williams, who, three years after his firing, remains ticked at Woods due to the latter’s lack of efforts at reconciliation. The bad fumes between Harmon and Woods really escalated with a very public spat in 2004. While the duo quickly patched things up, and no such catiness has re-appeared in the last decade, don’t think that Woods has forgotten about the animosity the split and its aftermath produced.
On Harmon’s side, the renowned swing instructor has consistently bristled at being known solely for his work with Woods, when he brought Greg Norman to World No. 1, and was pivotal in the careers of Hall of Famers Phil Mickelson, Ernie Els, Fred Couples, Davis Love III and Jose Maria Olazabal. His frustration boiled over in 2013 when his partnership with President Barack Obama was marred by his being tagged as Woods’ ex-coach. If any person wishes to dissociate himself from his past sessions with Woods, it’s Harmon. And you don’t get rid of that past by returning to the source.
One of the main reasons for the Harmon-Woods split all those years ago was Tiger’s inability to cope with what he perceived to be undue credit heaped on his coach. While he was happy to praise Harmon for his help, Woods at some point felt his star swing instructor was receiving too much of the accolades for his golfing performance.
That serves as a massive hesitation point on Woods’ part because the exact same thing would happen now. Harmon is just as renowned (if not more so) as he was more than a decade ago. Woods is in the midst of the worst year of his career, meaning a return close to his 2013 form, let alone the 2005-2009 or 1999-2002 stuff, would be viewed as a masterful turnaround.
If Harmon steps in and Woods emerges as a significant winner again, it adds up to another love storm for the old coach, with his 38-year-old pupil fuming all the while.
If you don’t agree, just look at all of the slack Hank Haney and Sean Foley have received for not living up to the standard Harmon-Woods set. Fans swoon over the swing of the 24-year-old Tiger Woods in 2000, who led the Tour in Greens in Regulation by nearly 3 percent. But his ball striking was on the same level in 2006, when he also led GIR by a mile, in addition to being T1 in Proximity to the Hole.
His overall performance in 2000 was better than in 2006, but most all of the difference can be attributed to putting. Woods was “only” 22nd in strokes gained putting in 2006, and while that statistic wasn’t compiled in 2000, all of the old putting metrics, not to mention media reports, point to Woods as one of the world’s few best putters that year.
As Haney mentioned in his book, The Big Miss, his record stacks up quite well next to Harmon. The Texan may have the world’s largest inferiority complex, but he does have a point. Woods contended and won at a higher rate under his tutelage than during his stay in Harmon’s stable. And his six majors in 23 attempts next to Harmon’s eight in 24 isn’t too shabby either.
Foley was stuck with a weakened, if still-talented Woods. BFF Brandel Chamblee has called for the coach’s firing ever since 2012, but it’s mostly been unwarranted. It’s unfair to compare Foley to Woods’ past record when he is clearly a lesser player due to aging. If you look at Woods’ two healthy years with Foley, he had eight PGA Tour wins, many of them high profile victories. That’s a pretty good record for a guy past his prime. (Not to mention the fact that critics *cough* Chamblee *cough* have lampooned Woods’ poor performance off the tee with Foley. That’s despite the fact that Woods drove the ball better in 2012 and 2013 than he had since the early 2000s, and this was with a diminished swing speed.)
The latter two coaches continue to receive all of the harsh words while Harmon healthly sits on his pedestal in 2014. Another successful run with Tiger might send him to new heights, irritating Woods exponentially more.
And if all that isn’t enough to deter you, remember that Harmon has iterated his desire to slow down. Adding Woods to his stable does the exact opposite of that. It appears the swing coach is no longer in desire of the whirlwind that is advicing the generation’s best talent.
For all of the reasons above, Woods-Harmon II is not to be. Not in 2014, not ever.
Opinion & Analysis
Brandel Chamblee PGA Championship Q&A: Rose’s huge McLaren risk, distracted LIV pros and why Aronimink suits the bombers
PGA Championship week is here, and Brandel Chamblee did not hold back in our latest discussion ahead of the season’s second major.
In our 2026 PGA Championship Q&A, golf’s leading analyst made the case that PIF pulling LIV’s funding has left its players competing in a state of confusion, called Justin Rose’s mid-season equipment switch a huge risk at 45, and explained why Aronimink will be a bombers’ delight this week.
Check out the full Q&A below.
Gianni: With the PIF confirming that they’re pulling funding from LIV at the end of the season, what impact do you expect that to have on the LIV players competing at the PGA Championship?
Brandel: I would imagine that they have all been thrown into a state of confusion, and will be distracted, not knowing where they are going to play next year and not knowing exactly their road back to either the DP World Tour or the PGA Tour. Or in Rahm’s case, being tied to a sinking ship for the next few years, likely playing for pennies on the dollar in events that no one cares about or watches.
I doubt this would put him in the best frame of mind to compete at his highest level. Keeping in mind, however, that majors are the only time that LIV disciples get to play in events that matter, so never disregard the motivation they have to prove to the world they are still relevant.
Gianni: Justin Rose switched to McLaren Golf equipment mid-season while playing some of the best golf of his career. What do you make of the change?
Brandel: I don’t really know what to make of Rose switching equipment. It seems a huge risk on his part, even though it is likely, in my opinion, that the clubs he’s playing are similar, if not the exact grinds, to what he was playing previously, with a McLaren stamp on them.
Having said that, at best, it is a distraction when he seemed to be as dialed in with his game as any 45-year-old could be and trending in the majors to perhaps do something that would definitely put him in the Hall of Fame. At worst, given the possibility that these clubs aren’t just duplicates of his old set stamped with McLaren on them, he’s made an equipment change that would take time, and 45-year-old athletes don’t have the time to do such things.
Gianni: Aronimink has only hosted a handful of professional events since it hosted the 1962 PGA Championship. What kind of test does it present, and does a course with less recent major championship history tend to level the playing field?
Brandel: Even though Aronimink has only hosted a handful of meaningful professional events, it has been fairly discerning in who can win there. When Keegan Bradley won the BMW Championship on the Donald Ross masterpiece in 2018, he was the 2nd best iron player on tour coming into that week. When Nick Watney won the AT&T at Aronimink in 2011, he was 2nd in strokes gained total coming into the week.
In 2020, Aronimink hosted the KPMG Championship, and Sei Young Kim won. On the LPGA that year, she was first in greens in regulation, putts per green in regulation, and scoring average on the way to being the LPGA player of the year. And then there is the 1962 PGA Championship won by Gary Player, who eventually became just one of a few players to win the career grand slam on the way to winning 9 majors. It is a formidable test, and if it’s not softened by rain, it will bring out the best in the upper echelons of the game.
Gianni: Is there a specific hole at Aronimink that you think will do the most to decide the winner?
Brandel: The hardest hole at Aronimink in each of the three tour events that have been played there since 2010 has been the long par-3 8th hole, with the par-4 10th being the second hardest, so most of the carnage will happen around the turn, but with the par-5 16th offering opportunities for bold plays and the tough closing holes at 17 and 18, the finish is likely to be frenetic.
Gianni: The PGA Championship has always sat in the shadow of the other majors. What does the ideal PGA Championship look like in your eyes, and what would it take for it to carve out its own identity?
Brandel: The PGA Championship, to whatever degree it suffers from the comparison to the other three majors, is still counted just as much when adding them up at the end of one’s career. Almost 1/3 of Nicklaus’ major wins were the five PGA Championships he won. Walter Hagen won 11 majors, five of which were PGA Championships.
Tiger Woods twice in his career won back-to-back PGA Championships, and those four majors count just as much as the other 11 he won. The PGA may not have the prestige of the other three, but it carries the same weight. Having said that, I preferred the identity that it had as the last major of the year.
Gianni: You nailed your Masters picks. Rory won, Scottie finished solo second, and Morikawa surged to a tie for seventh. Who are your top 3 picks for the PGA Championship and why?
Brandel: I am not a huge fan of majors played on golf courses that have been shorn of most of the trees, although I understand some of the agronomic reasons for doing so and of course the ease with which it allows members to play after errant drives. However, at the highest level, it all but eliminates any strategy off the tee and turns professional golf into an even bigger slugfest. That means that it will likely be a bomber’s delight this week, but fortunately, Scottie Scheffler is long enough to play that game and straight enough to play it better than anyone else.
The major championships give us very few surprises anymore, going back to the beginning of 2012, so the last 57 majors played, the average world rank of the winners has been better than 15th in the world. So look at the highest ranked and longest drivers who are on form coming into the PGA Championship who also have great short games as the surrounds at Aronimink are very challenging. That’s Scottie Scheffler by a mile and then McIlroy and Cameron Young with a far bigger nod towards DeChambeau than I gave him at the Masters.
In this episode of the Club Junkie Podcast, we dive into one of the most interesting flatstick releases of the year with a full review of the new TaylorMade SYSTM 2 putters. After spending time on the greens, I break down what makes this design stand out, where it performs, and why it has me completely torn between loving it and fighting it. If you are into feel, alignment, and consistency, this is one you will want to hear about.
We also take a look at some of the putters in play on the PGA Tour last week. From familiar favorites to a few surprising setups, there is always something to learn from what the best players in the world are rolling with under pressure.
To wrap things up, I walk through the process of building a set of JP Golf Prime irons paired with Baddazz Gold Series shafts. From component selection to performance goals, this is a deep dive into what goes into creating a unique custom set and why this combo has been so intriguing.
This year my 50th birthday. Gosh, where has the time gone?
As a teenager in rural Missouri, some of my junior high and high school years felt interminable. Graduation seemed light years away. But the older I get, the faster life seems to fly by.
I’m also increasingly aware of my mortality. My dad died recently. Earlier this year, a friend and fellow PGA of America professional and I were texting about our next catch-up. The next message I received was news of his unexpected passing at 48. Shortly after, a woman I dated in college succumbed to cancer at 51.
Certainly, one can share perspective at any age. Seniors help freshmen, veterans guide rookies. But reaching this milestone feels like as good a time as any to do one of those “what would I tell my younger self?” articles.
I’ve had a uniquely varied career in golf. I started as a 27-year-old, average-length-hitting, 14-handicap computer engineer and somehow managed to turn pro before running out of money, constantly bootstrapping my way forward. I’ve won qualifiers and set venue records in the World Long Drive Championships, finished fifth at the Speedgolf World Championships, coached all skill levels as a PGA of America professional, built industry-leading swing speed training programs for Swing Man Golf, helped advance the single-length iron market with Sterling Irons®, caddied on the PGA TOUR and PGA TOUR Champions, and played about 300 courses across 32 countries.
It’s been a ride, and I’ve gone both deep and wide.
So while I can consult and advise from a lot of angles, let me keep it to a few things I’d tell the average golfer who wants to improve.
1. Think About What You Want
Everyone has their own reason for picking up a golf club.
Oddly, as a professional athlete, I’m not internally driven by competition. That can be challenging, as the industry currently prioritizes and incentivizes competition over the love of the game.
For me, I love walking and being outdoors. Nature helps balance my energy. I prefer courses that are integrated into the natural beauty of their surroundings. I’m comfortable practicing alone. I’m a deep thinker, and I genuinely enjoy investigating the game, using data and intuition to unearth unique, often innovative insights. I’m fortunate to be strong and athletic, so I appreciate the chance to engage with my abilities. Traveling feels adventurous. I could go on.
You don’t have to overthink it like I do. For you, it might be as simple as hitting balls to escape work, hanging out with friends, and playing loosely with the rules and the score.
The point is to give yourself permission to play for your own reasons, and let that be enough.
But if improvement is your goal, thinking about your destination—and when you want to get there—is important, because it dictates the steps you need to take. When I set out to go from a 14-handicap to the PGA TOUR as quickly as possible, the steps I needed were very different from those of a working golfer trying to break 90 in six months. That’s also different from someone who just wants a few peaceful hours outside each week, away from work or family.
None of these goals are better than the others, but each requires a different plan that you can work backward from.
2. There Are Lots of Things That Can Work
One of the challenges of golf is that, although there are rules for playing, there aren’t clear, industry-wide standards for how to best play the game. There’s a lot of gray area.
You might hear a top coach or trainer insist that a certain move is the best way to swing or train. Then you dig a bit deeper and, much to your confusion and frustration, another respected coach or trainer says something completely different. I don’t think anyone is trying to confuse you—at least I hope not. It’s just where the industry is right now.
You have to be careful with advice from tournament pros, too. They might be great at scoring, but they’re also human and sometimes just as susceptible as amateurs to believing things that don’t really move the needle. Tour players might describe what they feel, but that’s not always what they’re actually doing when assessed with technology.
I recently ran a test on my YouTube channel (which connects to my GolfWRX article “How to use your hands in the golf swing for power and accuracy”), and, interestingly, two of the most commonly taught hand actions produced the worst results in the test.
Coaches can certainly help. If you find someone you connect with to help navigate, that’s great. But there are many ways to get the ball in the hole. In the current landscape, you may need to seek multiple opinions, think critically, and use your own intuition to discern what seems true and whose advice resonates with you.
I’d recommend seeking someone who is open-minded and always learning, because things constantly change. Absolutes like “correct” or “proper” should raise a red flag. AI can be useful, but it tends to confidently repeat popular advice, so proceed with caution.
3. Get Custom Fit
If you’re serious about becoming a better player, getting custom fit is hugely important. There’s no sense fighting your equipment if you don’t have to. Most better players get fit these days and, if they don’t, they’re usually skilled enough to work around clubs that aren’t ideal.
If you plan to play for a long time, it’s worth spending a little more upfront to get something that truly fits you and your game, rather than continually buying and discarding equipment.
Equipment rules haven’t really changed significantly since the early 2000s. To stay in business, manufacturers keep pushing those limits. If you pull a bunch of clubs and balls off the rack and test them, you’ll find differences. I’ve tested two new drivers and seen a 30-yard total distance gap. Usually, the issue isn’t bad equipment; it’s that the combination of components simply isn’t the best fit.
It’s like wearing a new pair of floppy clown shoes. Sure, they’re shoes—but you won’t sprint your best in them compared to track shoes that fit perfectly.
Be wary of what’s called custom fitting, too. Sometimes the term is used as a marketing strategy rather than an actual fitting. In some retail settings, fitters may be incentivized to steer you toward higher-priced components. That doesn’t automatically mean it’s not the best fit, but you should be aware of potential biases.
I learned a version of this lesson outside of golf. Years ago, I bought a tennis racquet at a big box store from a seemingly knowledgeable employee who thought it would suit me best. The racquet gave me tennis elbow, and I spent months recovering with rest and acupuncture. The next season, I invested more time and money to find what actually fit me, and I walked away with something amazing that I still play with years later.
So if you’re going to get fit, be smart about it.
Find someone you believe has deep knowledge—possibly with certifications, but not necessarily. Make sure there’s a wide inventory across many brands. Check recent reviews for the individual fitter if possible. Make sure you trust that the fitter has your best interests at heart. If they’re wearing a hat or shirt with a specific brand’s logo, proceed with caution. Unless you specifically want a certain brand or look, be wary of upsells, especially if two options perform nearly the same.
Also, while golf is called a sport of integrity, there’s a thread of manipulation in the industry. I once drafted an equipment article for an industry magazine, structured just like one of their previous popular stories, with matching word count and great photos. The assistant editor loved it; it was useful to readers and required little work on his part. But the editor-in-chief nixed the story. When I asked why, I was told it was because I wasn’t an advertiser. It turned out the article I’d modeled mine after was a paid ad cleverly disguised as editorial content.
I really dislike games, clickbait, and fear-based manipulation. I hope this changes, but golfers deserve to know it exists.
4. Distance and Strategy Matter
There’s a real relationship between how far you hit the ball and your scoring average, even at the PGA TOUR level.
I experienced this early in my pro career. I started as a power hitter, swinging in the high 120s and breaking 200 mph ball speed with a stock driver.
Back then, some instructors advised swinging at 80%, so I tried slowing down for more accuracy. That worked fine on shorter, tighter courses. But on longer setups, I was coming into greens with too much club, and par 5s stopped being
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talljohn777
Aug 28, 2014 at 2:54 am
I understand Bagger Vance may be available…
Tin Whistle
Aug 27, 2014 at 11:06 pm
Slicefixer already fixed Tiger’s swing in Encyclopedia Texarkana (p 48-49)…
Tiger, call Geoff…
Geoff, if Tiger calls can I get a free lesson?
dwntnbrown
Aug 27, 2014 at 7:29 pm
who gives a flying f— about tiggggger woods
Prototype
Aug 27, 2014 at 4:28 pm
Tiger needs to call Monty Scheinblum ASAP. He can fix Tiger’s swing in very little time
Richard Grime
Aug 28, 2014 at 3:33 pm
I’ll second that!
Monte would have him being able to drive the ball well!
Jack Nash
Aug 27, 2014 at 2:16 pm
Bravo, Kevin! Well said.
Tom
Aug 27, 2014 at 2:04 pm
it’s about $$. butch (anyone) can be bought. if tiger wants butch, tiger will get butch. therefore, this article is bunk.
ALAN JARRARD
Aug 27, 2014 at 2:22 pm
TIGER IS IN MAJOR NEED OF MAJOR HELP TO WIN ANOTHER MAJOR, BUT HARMON WHO IN MY HUMBLE OPINION IS SIMPLY THE BEST HAS NO NEED FOR TIGER IF TIGER NEVER WINS AGAIN BUTCH STILL HAS THE BEST RECORD EVER WITH TIGER , NORMAN ETC.
SO IF TIGER GETS BUTCH BACK ON BOARD WOULD REQUIRE SOME MAJOR HUMBLE PIE NOT A TIGER MEAL EVER , BUT TIGER WANTS 18 MAJORS , ONLY CHANCE IS VIA BUTCH QUICKLY AS IN SANTA BUTCH UNDER TIGERS TREE. OR TIGER MAY NEVER WIN ZIP AGAIN AND MIGHT NOT PLAY MUCH EITHER TO MANY CRUNCHES TOOK THEIR TOLL BEING BUFF BALL IN THE ROUGH.
Lee
Aug 27, 2014 at 3:02 pm
Agreed all about the $$$$$, that’s why they parted in the first place and the main reason they won’t be a partnership again.
Rumble
Aug 27, 2014 at 10:30 am
I don’t buy the aging argument. Sports medicine and the “science” of the swing and bio-mechanics have come a long way since the reign of Nicklaus. Nicklaus won 6 majors after turning 35, including two when he was 40. Tiger is also only one major behind Nicklaus for their comparable ages. They both had very similar plateaus as well.
Other publishers on this website have discussed in detail with video evidence of some things under Foley that are not “technically sound”, such as releasing the driver to late by attempting to manipulate the handle.
All of this together, including the ego, will probably mean the end of 12 shot victories in the majors; however, if Tiger gets back to basics and feel in his golf swing the talent is still there, making him a real threat to pull off a few more victories by age 46. Which is 8 years from now, and coincides with Nicklaus’ last major victory.
Sam Adams
Aug 27, 2014 at 9:43 am
Great article! I agree that Tiger needs to do it himself. He’s always felt he knew more than his coaches.
Joe Golfer
Aug 27, 2014 at 1:52 am
Good article.
I agree that it will never happen. Two large egos that wouldn’t get along with each other, especially with their past history.
One thing that Harmon did very well was to get Tiger to use a wider stance. With that stance, he wasn’t playing his ball position on his drives off of his front toe, as he sometimes is now. He didn’t have to try to catch up with his hands, either having a late release that led to a push or a forced quick release that produced a hook, which seems to be rather common in his current game.
See this other GolfWRX article for confirmation of same:
http://www.golfwrx.com/239665/clark-tigers-excessive-shaft-lean-is-holding-him-back/
Joe 2
Aug 28, 2014 at 8:19 pm
Indeed! Ball position and stance width!
Pingback: Why a Tiger-Butch Reunion Won’t Happen | Spacetimeandi.com
Ryan
Aug 26, 2014 at 10:01 pm
All speculation…
Toots
Aug 26, 2014 at 8:54 pm
I think Tiger made the decision long before dropping Foley. I don’t take him as a guy that would fire his coach then decide what is next sort of guy. If I am wrong it is only because he is going to try and go at it on his own and then make a call if need be. I would love to see Harmon come back and while I agree that Phil would have a problem with it we are assuming he and Phil get along well…which we don’t really know.
moses
Aug 26, 2014 at 7:35 pm
I really like what Butch has done with Ricky. 🙂
If you look at Butch Harmon’s past history he has a habit of producing winners. On the surface it would seem to appear Tiger thought it was all him. I would guesstimate it wa 70 30. But that 30 was ALOT.
Martin
Aug 26, 2014 at 5:39 pm
I can’t help but feel a big “Who Cares” is in order here.
Dustin
Aug 26, 2014 at 8:21 pm
You care so little that you felt the need to comment? That makes sense…
Martin
Aug 26, 2014 at 8:44 pm
It was sort of a derisive comment about the lead story being on why Butch and Tiger won’t pair up, must be a slow week.
Wait a minute, the second leg of the Fedex cup is on, the Ryder Cup picks are coming shortly, Can Rory win again this week, Mahan comes back from a long Paternity Leave, Furyk lets another one go, Kuch’s back is OK for the Ryder Cup…never mind.
Maybe Tiger should go back to the driving range he first hit balls on with Earl and the magic will happen again.
Jeremy
Aug 26, 2014 at 11:18 pm
See, now that’s a proper comment 😉
And, honestly, I sort of care. I wasn’t playing golf when that era was taking place, and now that I’m so into it I hang out on golf blogs I’ve been curious what all the tension is about between those two.
Rich
Aug 27, 2014 at 3:52 am
Couldn’t agree more. There must have been something more interesting to write about. No story worth telling after the Barclays? Of course not. Let’s write a story about a guy THAT ISN’T EVEN PLAYING IN THE PLAYOFFS! TigerWRX strikes again.
Knobbywood
Aug 27, 2014 at 10:54 am
Tiger = views = ad $ …. Its not that complicated… All these who cares and another tiger article comments… Save it people… Nobody cares that you don’t care… Get used to it
Rich
Aug 27, 2014 at 5:48 pm
Knobbywood,
I wouldn’t care if there we’re complete coverage of what’s going on but to cover Tiger to the exclusion of other events in the golfing world to me is ridiculous. Tiger might = bums on seats so to speak but what’s wrong with covering the other important news. Tiger’s not going to be around forever.
Big Tony
Aug 26, 2014 at 4:54 pm
don’t sleep on mike adams @medalist gc, being ‘the one’ to get tiger back to thinking about ball flight, and away from thinking about trackman numbers. mike is prob the best man for the job at this point for a couple reasons, (1) access, he works at tiger’s club, (2) he doesn’t care for the limelight, (3) there’s no disputing he knows his onions when it comes to the swing.
Jimmy
Aug 26, 2014 at 4:49 pm
Maybe that clown Brandel Chamblee will quit the golf channel and be his coach he seems to think he knows all about fixing tigers swing
TW
Aug 26, 2014 at 6:54 pm
Do you need a moment to gather yourself? Its not like brandel doesn’t have some good points
Dpavs
Aug 26, 2014 at 4:09 pm
Just a few points;
1. It’s a misleading statement (not even true really) that Tiger drove the ball better in 2013 and 2012 than he had since the early 2000’s. His driving has been historically erratic from year to year but there is no real parallel you can draw here. This statement also ignores the fact that in 2009 tiger had a Driving Accuracy Percentage 64.29% and a Driving Distance of 298.4. Which is better than either 2013 or 2014.
2. I agree that it ain’t gonna happen… for most of the reasons stated and also because Phil would be an absolute lunatic if he did not boycott such a proposition. I don’t think Harmon would want to risk that long standing and amicable relationship.
3. It’s ridiculous to defend Foley’s work with Tiger (if it even needs defending) based on his getting a more aged Tiger as a student. That’s just non-sense. He essentially got the same player Haney did. Woods won eight majors under Harmon’s tutelage and six with Haney and he won absolutely zippo, nada, nil majors under Foley.
4. You forgot to mention that Tiger is a head case. He’s had some of the best coaches money can buy and they have all had reasonable success working with him… most of the reasons for the partings prior to Foley have not been for lack of success… he’s just plain and simple a head case.. why else would you leave coaches who helped you to some of the most successful years in your career. The only coach this does not hold true for is Foley.. so if there are grounds for him to have ever left anyone based on his performance.. it would be his leaving Foley.
5. Haney was right when he said Tiger is probably better off alone at this point. Why? See #4 above. This quote from Haney says it all.. “He certainly knows enough,” Haney said Tuesday on “Morning Drive”. “I think he’d probably be better off just going and doing it himself. He’s the one that he’ll listen to the most. He’s the one that he’s always listened to the most.”
6. Harmon or anybody who is well established would need to be suicidal to take Tiger on now. If he goes with anyone I could foresee him going to some up and comer who is still making a name for himself.. someone with nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Kevin Casey
Aug 26, 2014 at 10:43 pm
Love the thorough response. Always great to see that.
To go point by point:
1. There is a bit of conjecture here, as more of the advanced stats only go back to 2008. But if you went off of driving distance and accuracy alone, 2012 and 2013 are some of his best. Yes, he had a higher driving accuracy percentage in 2009, but the percentage isn’t important, his ranking compared to the rest of the Tour is. And the ranking in 2009 here is 86th, whereas he was 69th and 55th in 2013 and 2012, respectively. And when it comes to distance, I don’t think the general “driving distance” stat is the best. That only counts one drive per nine holes, with each drive being on a hole where driver is the extreme likely tee club of choice. The stat tries to identify who hits it farthest with the driver. What that doesn’t account for is that some players are aggressive and others are conservative off the tee. Maybe “driving distance” tells us a guy hits the big dog 310 on average, but if he’s pulling out a 3-wood or an iron on basically every tee, that 310 average means very little. It’s only telling us what his potential is if he hit a Tour average number of drivers per round. If he’s hitting a lot more three-woods and irons than the average Tour player, his real distance per tee shot is a lot less.
That’s why I like “Driving Distance- All Drives.” As it implies, the stat measures all drives a player makes in a year (or at least every one that is measured by a laser). In this way, we see how much distance a player really gets on their drives, based on their combination of power and tee box strategy. Using this metric, we find that Woods in 2012 and 2009 had virtually the same average distance on his drive (he placed somewhere ranked in the 30s). He’s actually most hurt in 2013, where his extreme conservative strategy knocks him down to 95th.
Based on this, I think tweaking my statement to “some of his best driving since the early 2000s” is appropriate. Because he was a better driver in 2009 than 2013 based on these stats, but the best of those three years from the tee box was 2012.
Even if 2013 is worse than 2009, I still think it’s better than basically any other year since the early 2000s. His distance was significantly down from the mid-2000s, but his accuracy was way better. And while he still suffered from “The Big Miss” (155th in distance from edge of fairway in 2013), my assumption is that he would finish basically dead last in that category (190s or worse) if it measured the 2004-2007 years. That’s again conjecture, but based on the fact that his off the planet misses at that time were the stuff of legend. (For the record, his Distance From Edge of Fairway numbers from 2009, 2012 and 2013 are 135th, 147th and 155th. Which doesn’t change anything when it comes to ranking those three seasons in driving.)
So, I agree that the statement could use a bit of tweaking, but I don’t think it’s even close to entirely false based on the (admittedly limited) data we have.
2. Not much else to say here. Phil’s reaction would be interesting. I don’t know that Phil is a lunatic if he lets Butch and Tiger re-unite. If Phil really believes that Harmon helps him out a lot, it’s not worth potentially straining their relationship or ending it altogether based on Butch’s affinity for Tiger.
3. I think you can absolutely defend his work with Foley. It wasn’t the greatest player-coach partnership in history, but it was quite fruitful. I stand by the fact that he absolutely had a different Tiger than previous coaches. Aging is a real thing and a hindrance to a player’s game. This wasn’t going to affect Tiger under Butch or Haney because he was in his 20s or early 30s. But under Foley, he was reaching his later 30s, when golfers tend to start losing their skills a bit. Injuries also take their toll. Harmon had very little to deal with there, as did Haney for much of his tenure. But Tiger couldn’t stop getting injured at the beginning of his dalliance with Foley and he remains prone to them. And you could easily argue that Tiger has a weakened mental game since his November 2009 adventure. Add all of that up and you have a weakened Tiger in the Foley-era regardless of the instructor’s influence. And let’s also not forget that Haney was really last Tiger’s coach in 2009 (I know they split in 2010, but it was very early on in Woods’ season), and Foley didn’t really get to work with a weakened, but fully operational Tiger until 2012. So there’s a gap in time there as well.
And if you still don’t believe me, just look at Tiger’s club head speed. It was around 125 at his peak, good for tops (or 2nd or 3rd) on Tour. By 2012-2013, that speed dropped around 120, which is barely top-10 on Tour. That may not sound like a huge difference, but it is for a guy who used power as a key weapon to dominate for so long. That’s what happens as you age, you aren’t able to get the same club head speed, it has nothing to do with the swing Foley helped employ.
So I really don’t see how Foley’s version of Tiger wasn’t already diminished. When you realize that, you see that eight PGA Tour wins in the two years we have useful data is pretty good stuff. Woods averaged about 6 wins and a major per year in his peak, but he’s no longer that guy regardless of who teaches him. Four per year with plenty at high profile events (in his post-prime state) is a solid record, if still something that can be improved on.
4. He definitely has an interesting way of going about swing instructors. Very unusual in the history of golf. But Woods actually left Haney (or Haney “resigned”) at a very similar point to Foley’s. He left Haney after a very successful 2009 (and 2008, 2007, etc.), but did so due to extenuating circumstances (adultery) interrupting his golf game in 2010. Woods canned Foley after a very successful 2013 (and 2012), but did so due to extenuating circumstances in 2014 (i.e. he missed a good portion of the year, and played significantly injured in most events he participated in). So I don’t agree that he left Foley for performance. You can’t count 2014 because of all of the injuries wrecking havoc. That means the last true performance we can look to is 2013, and the partnership was thriving then.
5. He could be better off alone, he could not. Who knows at this point, Tiger is such an enigma that it’s impossible to figure out.
6. There isn’t a ton of upside here for a renowned teacher, I definitely agree. I think there would still be a few who took the bait though if Tiger asked. But, really early in the process here, so again, who knows.
Dave
Aug 26, 2014 at 11:07 pm
For most of your counterpoints I can see both sides of the argument, I just find myself on the other side this time 🙂
Just one additional comment thought about his swing speed under Foley.. obviously his injuries have always had an effect on his play but I think the diminishing swing speed you see by years 2012 and 2013 are more a by-product of his quieting his lower body… certainly you can argue that this was perhaps something that was encouraged by his wanting to avoid re-aggravating his back… but I’m not sure that even absent the back injury Foley would not have worked with Tiger to quiet that lower body a bit more than he had in the past in an effort to get back to the higher levels of consistency he enjoyed in his best years.
Thanks Kevin, nice job on all this!
Desmond
Aug 26, 2014 at 4:09 pm
It’s been real for at least 10 years that Butch and Tiger wouldn’t be kissing under a tree. But at least the hope was a positive one with a hopeful tone. That’s more than you can say about a lot of discussion on the internet.
Dalt
Aug 26, 2014 at 4:06 pm
Because Butch was getting so much credit for Tiger’s game, he was dropped in favor of Hank. Tiger did the same thing to Fluff because he made a commercial w/o Tiger’s knowledge or approval. He dropped Stevie because Stevie caddied for Scott while Tiger was laid up. These events transpired because of Tiger’s ego. It’s all about Tiger. With hindsight being the ol’ infamous 20/20, Tiger’s ego has cost him that which he cherished most, Nicklaus’record. Tiger, wake up, you ain’t gonna catch Jack. It’s over.
Chris
Aug 26, 2014 at 8:44 pm
Tiger dropped Harmon in part because he wasn’t returning Tiger’s calls. For a $million or so a year, you’d think he could call him back. That may not be the only reason but it was part of it. Same thing happened with Harmon and Norman, too.
Jake
Jun 27, 2023 at 1:31 pm
There was no million dollars a year. Butch wrote in his book that he had a ten year contract with Tiger and he was paid $50,000 a year and Tiger never paid him a penny over that.
Ben
Aug 26, 2014 at 3:54 pm
All about egos and attitude. Pretty sad. Why? The same reason everyone is screaming for them to get back together… Tiger was playing his best golf when he was with Butch.
Dalt
Aug 26, 2014 at 4:10 pm
When he was with Harmon, he was unbeatable. Winning majors by 12 shots. Shooting unheard of scores at the U.S. Open. He blew it and now he can just dream about what might have been if he had swallowed his pride and stayed with Butch.
Bryan
Aug 26, 2014 at 3:41 pm
It won’t happen because Butch has been on record saying it will never happen…he reiterated yesterday that he won’t, and Tiger “won’t call”.
There’s your article…
Jack A.
Aug 26, 2014 at 3:33 pm
Well . .. someone had to bring us back to reality.
snakesnot
Aug 26, 2014 at 3:15 pm
probably won’t happen…but it would be for the best.
Michael Howes
Aug 26, 2014 at 3:10 pm
I enjoyed the read Kevin
Gary hacker
Aug 26, 2014 at 2:59 pm
Agreed. Never happening. Great article