Instruction
Between clubs? Choking up is always the best strategy
What should golfers do when they’re stuck between yardages? Alter their swing? Hit their shorter club harder? Hit their longer club easier?
The answer is neither. I recommended that most golfers simply “choke up.”
Think about it: If you shorten the club by choking up, your swing will shorten, your clubhead speed will decrease and the ball won’t carry as far. It’s an easy solution to a problem that almost all of us make too hard.
Of course, there are situations when golfers must alter their swings or hit the ball differently, but thankfully these situations are limited. That’s why I recommend choking up 100 percent of the time for most golfers. At the higher levels there are a few other options, but choking up is the easiest, most consistent solution.
In efforts to help you understand what “choking up” does, I hit a few shots on my Trackman so we could look at what happens to ball flight when you hit a shot full, choke up 1 inch and choke up 2 inches. Here’s the data.
Stock 7 iron swing
- Club head speed was 82.3 mph.
- Ball Speed was 113.4 mph.
- Launch was 17.2 degrees with a spin rate of 6836 rpm.
- Height was 103.6 feet and the landing angle was 55.6 degrees.
- Carry was 152.3 yards. Given its spin rate, height and landing angle, this ball is going to sit on the green quickly.
Stock 7 iron swing (Choked up 1 inch)
- Club head speed was 79.0 mph.
- Ball Speed was 107.9 mph.
- Launch was 17.2 degrees with a spin rate of 6477 rpm.
- Height was 80.5 feet and the landing angle was 50.9 degrees.
- The ball carried 139.7 when choked up 1 inch versus my stock carry of 152.3. That’sa difference of 12.6 yards
- What is interesting to note is that even with the height going down by 23.1 feet the landing angle only went down by 4.7 degrees. That helped the ball only chase forward 3.5 yards.
- It’s nice to see that the ball will sit rather quickly when choking down 1 inch and that the spin rate stays within 359 rpm’s of my stock shot.
- The Verdict? When choking down 1 inch you will see a lower clubhead speed, a flatter launch, a shorter carry and shots will stop on the green almost as quick as your stock shot.
Stock 7 iron (Choked up 2 inches)
- Club head speed was 77.4 mph.
- Ball speed was 102.3 mph.
- Launch was 13.5 degrees with a spin rate of 5592 rpm.
- Height was 61.5 feet and the landing angle was 45.3 degrees.
- The ball carried 152.3 yards with my stock shot, 139.7 yards choked up 1 inch and 131.2 yards choked up 2 inches. It’s obvious to see that choking up can alter your distance by over 20 yards.
- The spin rate dropped from 6936 rpm to 5592 rpm, a difference of 1344 rpms and this greatly influences the release of the ball on the green. With this shot, I saw a roll out of 6.8 yards (20.4 feet).
- The Verdict? As the launch, height and spin rate decrease you will see a flatter landing angle on this shot at 45.3 degrees, which will cause the ball to run out a touch more. So choking up more than 1 inch will cause the ball to chase a touch more on the green.
There may be no more painful affliction in golf than the “yips” – those uncontrollable and maddening little nervous twitches that prevent you from making a decent stroke on short putts. If you’ve never had them, consider yourself very fortunate (or possibly just very young). But I can assure you that when your most treacherous and feared golf shot is not the 195 yard approach over water with a quartering headwind…not the extra tight fairway with water left and sand right…not the soft bunker shot to a downhill pin with water on the other side…No, when your most feared shot is the remaining 2- 4-foot putt after hitting a great approach, recovery or lag putt, it makes the game almost painful.
And I’ve been fighting the yips (again) for a while now. It’s a recurring nightmare that has haunted me most of my adult life. I even had the yips when I was in my 20s, but I’ve beat them into submission off and on most of my adult life. But just recently, that nasty virus came to life once again. My lag putting has been very good, but when I get over one of those “you should make this” length putts, the entire nervous system seems to go haywire. I make great practice strokes, and then the most pitiful short-stroke or jab at the ball you can imagine. Sheesh.
But I’m a traditionalist, and do not look toward the long putter, belly putter, cross-hand, claw or other variation as the solution. My approach is to beat those damn yips into submission some other way. Here’s what I’m doing that is working pretty well, and I offer it to all of you who might have a similar affliction on the greens.
When you are over a short putt, forget the practice strokes…you want your natural eye-hand coordination to be unhindered by mechanics. Address your putt and take a good look at the hole, and back to the putter to ensure good alignment. Lighten your right hand grip on the putter and make sure that only the fingertips are in contact with the grip, to prevent you from getting to tight.
Then, take a long, long look at the hole to fill your entire mind and senses with the target. When you bring your head/eyes back to the ball, try to make a smooth, immediate move right into your backstroke — not even a second pause — and then let your hands and putter track right back together right back to where you were looking — the HOLE! Seeing the putter make contact with the ball, preferably even the forward edge of the ball – the side near the hole.
For me, this is working, but I am asking all of you to chime in with your own “home remedies” for the most aggravating and senseless of all golf maladies. It never hurts to have more to fall back on!
Over the last couple of decades, golf has become much more science-based. We measure swing speed, smash factor, angle of attack, strokes gained, and many other metrics that can really help golfers improve. But I often wonder if the advancement of golf’s “hard” sciences comes at the expense of the “soft” sciences.
Take, for example, golf instruction. Good golf instruction requires understanding swing mechanics and ball flight. But let’s take that as a given for PGA instructors. The other factors that make an instructor effective can be evaluated by social science, rather than launch monitors.
If you are a recreational golfer looking for a golf instructor, here are my top three points to consider.
1. Cultural mindset
What is “cultural mindset? To social scientists, it means whether a culture of genius or a culture of learning exists. In a golf instruction context, that may mean whether the teacher communicates a message that golf ability is something innate (you either have it or you don’t), or whether golf ability is something that can be learned. You want the latter!
It may sound obvious to suggest that you find a golf instructor who thinks you can improve, but my research suggests that it isn’t a given. In a large sample study of golf instructors, I found that when it came to recreational golfers, there was a wide range of belief systems. Some instructors strongly believed recreational golfers could improve through lessons. while others strongly believed they could not. And those beliefs manifested in the instructor’s feedback given to a student and the culture created for players.
2. Coping and self-modeling can beat role-modeling
Swing analysis technology is often preloaded with swings of PGA and LPGA Tour players. The swings of elite players are intended to be used for comparative purposes with golfers taking lessons. What social science tells us is that for novice and non-expert golfers, comparing swings to tour professionals can have the opposite effect of that intended. If you fit into the novice or non-expert category of golfer, you will learn more and be more motivated to change if you see yourself making a ‘better’ swing (self-modeling) or seeing your swing compared to a similar other (a coping model). Stay away from instructors who want to compare your swing with that of a tour player.
3. Learning theory basics
It is not a sexy selling point, but learning is a process, and that process is incremental – particularly for recreational adult players. Social science helps us understand this element of golf instruction. A good instructor will take learning slowly. He or she will give you just about enough information that challenges you, but is still manageable. The artful instructor will take time to decide what that one or two learning points are before jumping in to make full-scale swing changes. If the instructor moves too fast, you will probably leave the lesson with an arm’s length of swing thoughts and not really know which to focus on.
As an instructor, I develop a priority list of changes I want to make in a player’s technique. We then patiently and gradually work through that list. Beware of instructors who give you more than you can chew.
So if you are in the market for golf instruction, I encourage you to look beyond the X’s and O’s to find the right match!
Most pros take months, even years, to win their first tournament. Lottie Woad needed exactly four days.
The 21-year-old from Surrey shot 21-under 267 at Dundonald Links to win the ISPS Handa Women’s Scottish Open by three shots — in her very first event as a professional. She’s only the third player in LPGA history to accomplish this feat, joining Rose Zhang (2023) and Beverly Hanson (1951).
But here’s what caught my attention as a coach: Woad didn’t win through miraculous putting or bombing 300-yard drives. She won through relentless precision and unshakeable composure. After watching her performance unfold, I’m convinced every golfer — from weekend warriors to scratch players — can steal pages from her playbook.
Precision Beats Power (And It’s Not Even Close)
Forget the driving contests. Woad proved that finding greens matters more than finding distance.
What Woad did:
• Hit it straight, hit it solid, give yourself chances
• Aimed for the fat parts of greens instead of chasing pins
• Let her putting do the talking after hitting safe targets
• As she said, “Everyone was chasing me today, and managed to maintain the lead and played really nicely down the stretch and hit a lot of good shots”
Why most golfers mess this up:
• They see a pin tucked behind a bunker and grab one more club to “go right at it”
• Distance becomes more important than accuracy
• They try to be heroic instead of smart
ACTION ITEM: For your next 10 rounds, aim for the center of every green regardless of pin position. Track your greens in regulation and watch your scores drop before your swing changes.
The Putter That Stayed Cool Under Fire
Woad started the final round two shots clear and immediately applied pressure with birdies at the 2nd and 3rd holes. When South Korea’s Hyo Joo Kim mounted a charge and reached 20-under with a birdie at the 14th, Woad didn’t panic.
How she responded to pressure:
• Fired back with consecutive birdies at the 13th and 14th
• Watched Kim stumble with back-to-back bogeys
• Capped it with her fifth birdie of the day at the par-5 18th
• Stayed patient when others pressed, pressed when others cracked
What amateurs do wrong:
• Get conservative when they should be aggressive
• Try to force magic when steady play would win
• Panic when someone else makes a move
ACTION ITEM: Practice your 3-6 foot putts for 15 minutes after every range session. Woad’s putting wasn’t spectacular—it was reliable. Make the putts you should make.
Course Management 101: Play Your Game, Not the Course’s Game
Woad admitted she couldn’t see many scoreboards during the final round, but it didn’t matter. She stuck to her game plan regardless of what others were doing.
Her mental approach:
• Focused on her process, not the competition
• Drew on past pressure situations (Augusta National Women’s Amateur win)
• As she said, “That was the biggest tournament I played in at the time and was kind of my big win. So definitely felt the pressure of it more there, and I felt like all those experiences helped me with this”
Her physical execution:
• 270-yard drives (nothing flashy)
• Methodical iron play
• Steady putting
• Everything effective, nothing spectacular
ACTION ITEM: Create a yardage book for your home course. Know your distances to every pin, every hazard, every landing area. Stick to your plan no matter what your playing partners are doing.
Mental Toughness Isn’t Born, It’s Built
The most impressive part of Woad’s win? She genuinely didn’t expect it: “I definitely wasn’t expecting to win my first event as a pro, but I knew I was playing well, and I was hoping to contend.”
Her winning mindset:
• Didn’t put winning pressure on herself
• Focused on playing well and contending
• Made winning a byproduct of a good process
• Built confidence through recent experiences:
- Won the Women’s Irish Open as an amateur
- Missed a playoff by one shot at the Evian Championship
- Each experience prepared her for the next
What this means for you:
• Stop trying to shoot career rounds every time you tee up
• Focus on executing your pre-shot routine
• Commit to every shot
• Stay present in the moment
ACTION ITEM: Before each round, set process goals instead of score goals. Example: “I will take three practice swings before every shot” or “I will pick a specific target for every shot.” Let your score be the result, not the focus.
The Real Lesson
Woad collected $300,000 for her first professional victory, but the real prize was proving that fundamentals still work at golf’s highest level. She didn’t reinvent the game — she simply executed the basics better than everyone else that week.
The fundamentals that won:
• Hit more fairways
• Find more greens
• Make the putts you should make
• Stay patient under pressure
That’s something every golfer can do, regardless of handicap. Lottie Woad just showed us it’s still the winning formula.
FINAL ACTION ITEM: Pick one of the four action items above and commit to it for the next month. Master one fundamental before moving to the next. That’s how champions are built.
PGA Professional Brendon Elliott is an award-winning coach and golf writer. You can check out his writing work and learn more about him by visiting BEAGOLFER.golf and OneMoreRollGolf.com. Also, check out “The Starter” on RG.org each Monday.
Editor’s note: Brendon shares his nearly 30 years of experience in the game with GolfWRX readers through his ongoing tip series. He looks forward to providing valuable insights and advice to help golfers improve their game. Stay tuned for more Tips!
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Sodapoppin
Sep 23, 2014 at 2:32 am
Hi Tom,
What exactly do you mean with “chokin up”? The logical explanation will be to “grip down” on the club, and would also make sense.
Kevin Russell
Sep 6, 2014 at 11:31 am
A quick question on your article about choking down an inch with your stock 7 are you starting at the butt end of the club or how far down do you grip for a stock shot?
Tom Stickney
Sep 6, 2014 at 3:29 pm
Yes from the butt end. I grip it just on the edge of the grip personally
Mike
Sep 5, 2014 at 2:55 am
Hi,
Nice data with your story. How you manage the Lie-angle change when choking up? With 2″ the lie-angle is so much different which should turn the ball more fade.
Thank’s for your good story.
Tom Stickney
Sep 5, 2014 at 9:03 am
You need to practice a touch to manage the length changes.
Jack F
Sep 4, 2014 at 6:04 pm
Tom… interesting and helpful article. One thing that may need to be emphasized (which you already eluded to) is the importance of the quality of ball striking and how it relates to all this data and your test. Every experiment requires assumptions to be made. This experiment assumes equal quality of contact at impact, which many may not have. Some may actually INCREASE the quality of impact which could provide opposite results. For me, early in the season or after an extended break, thus method wouldn’t work, as my ball striking is lacking. I’m sure this happens to a lot of you.
Tom Stickney
Sep 4, 2014 at 11:45 pm
Centered impact for different players can be length dependent.
Stewart
Sep 4, 2014 at 5:42 pm
I enjoy going down the shaft on shots but for me they end up going the same length and often even further into the wind.
This is due to me being a sweeper of the ball with my full swing and have around a 0* AOA but when I go down the shaft I tend to keep my weight towards the left and have around a 3-4* downward AOA which ends up a great flight for the wind but tricky to judge at times.
Tom Stickney
Sep 4, 2014 at 6:09 pm
The downward aoa shifts path to the rt and this coupled with more shaft lean can cause some distance control issues.
Fore!
Sep 4, 2014 at 1:38 pm
So when choking up, I should still try and replicate a full swing as if I was hitting it with a normal grip? I’ve gotten in the mindset that if I’m choking up, I swing easier too. But really it should be just a normal full swing and ‘shortening’ the club is what alters the club speed, not me?
tom stickney
Sep 4, 2014 at 4:19 pm
The swing will naturally be a touch tighter due to the shorter club
slide13
Sep 4, 2014 at 12:42 pm
Nice article, very useful, especially as I consider going out with a half-set in a Sunday bag for some casual rounds. I’ll experiment to see if this holds true. Great to see the numbers.
I wonder how the yardage changes will hold consistent as one moves through the set. In other words, does choking down 1″ on a 4 iron yield a larger or smaller change in distance than doing so with a 7 iron.
Tom Stickney
Sep 4, 2014 at 1:04 pm
Different for everyone.
David Smith
Sep 4, 2014 at 11:30 am
Isn’t it choking down? I’ve actually never heard someone say “choking up” in this context. Either way, great tips! Always a pleasure seeing what 1-2 inches can do 😉
Jacob
Sep 3, 2014 at 10:44 am
Isn’t the standard gap between clubs 10-15 yards? If so, by choking up 1″ and hitting it 12.6 yards less, why wouldn’t you just hit a full 8 iron?
Tom Stickney
Sep 3, 2014 at 11:05 am
Not everyone has all standard gaps
Jacob
Sep 3, 2014 at 7:01 pm
Good point. This would be handy if a player has a large gap between wedges. I myself have a 50* and 56* only and can think of a few occasions in my last round where I might have done well to choke up an inch on the 50* rather than hit 56*
Tom Stickney
Sep 3, 2014 at 7:18 pm
Always better to be in control.
eric
Sep 4, 2014 at 1:41 pm
Choke up 1/2″
Desmond
Sep 3, 2014 at 9:32 am
By the way, commend you for the subject, condensed presentation, and showing the stats. Appreciate it.
Tom Stickney
Sep 3, 2014 at 9:43 am
Thx. I try to make things easy.
Don
Sep 3, 2014 at 8:10 am
Tom, a very useful and straight forward article. Thank you! So if we keep this conclusion in mind and we apply it to a driver, can you help me with a conundrum. I am trying to find the optimum driver. My swing speed is between 95-98 mph. When I try to increase my launch, my spin jumps up to high and when I try to lower my spin the launch gets to low. I am considering trying a driver shorter than 45 1/2 inches, but if your conclusion holds constant than my launch will get lower and my speed will decrease. I am a scratch golfer and center impact is pretty consistent. I would love to know your thoughts.
Tom Stickney
Sep 3, 2014 at 9:46 am
It sounds like a vertical impact problem. Hitting it low in the face gives you low launch high spin and vice versa in the upper part if the face. I’d schedule a fitting with a TrackMan and some dr scholl’s ASAP.
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CD
Sep 3, 2014 at 6:03 am
Nice, simple article, no need for all these technical questions, or to delve into the ‘why’, I just I liked the fact that interestingly you get to a point and it releases more, and I’m looking forward to feeling and seeing different shots.
Amazing how often something simple you learn as a beginner gets over-looked with time.
Thanks
Tom Stickney
Sep 3, 2014 at 9:46 am
All my pleasure.
John
Sep 3, 2014 at 5:04 am
You guys kill me sometimes … Tom offered a very good tip and i thought it was worded very well and easy to understand and instead of just thanking the man for his work and very helpful advice you want to chastise him for the way he said it .. good grief can’t anyone just say thanks or say nothing at all??
Thanks Tom for a very good tip that is very helpful !!!!
Tom Stickney
Sep 3, 2014 at 9:47 am
Thank you.
B
Sep 3, 2014 at 1:10 am
Great article, thank you! I play with a lot of spin. I’ve been trying to reduce it through equipment changes, but ultimately, I know that a conscious effort to change course strategy is going to be the only effective solution. Basically, I can’t hold an 8I (and under) on greens that have a slight incline, due to the ridiculous amounts of backspin. This article has got me thinking… maybe the solution is to take two clubs extra (i.e. 6I instead of 8I), grip down 2″, take an extra 1000RPM spin off, and HOPEFULLY hold the green.
Joe
Sep 3, 2014 at 1:30 am
How about you play a lower spin ball…until the time when you plan on buying new clubs, at which point you can get fitted for lower spin shafts?
Tom Stickney
Sep 3, 2014 at 9:49 am
You could do that as well.
Tom Stickney
Sep 3, 2014 at 9:49 am
You have too much spinloft at impact hence the reason why it’s spinning too much. Hit your shots a touch lower without digging down any deeper and the spin should come down.
james
Sep 2, 2014 at 8:47 pm
My regular swing already incorporates quite a bit of choking down (ala Anthony Kim) and doing so has never altered my distance. In fact, distance has increased due to more consistent sweetspot-striking. Would you recommend I further choke down or would you recommend some other tip? Thank you for your articles, they have been wonderful for me.
tom stickney
Sep 2, 2014 at 11:30 pm
Thank you…experiment…I’d say if you choke down further you might find that yardage comes off as well.
Brian
Sep 2, 2014 at 8:36 pm
I have been trying to improve my course management and making intelligent decisions this year. I tried this on Sunday whereby the pin was towards the back but if I hit my nine iron the proper distance I was flirting with back edge on a green where you do not want to go over the back. However the pitching wedge would be at front of the green and no way would get back there. I decided to choke down one inch and I nailed it pin high. Was wondering how to go about figuring out an approximate choke down yardage subtraction. Perhaps a simple rule of thumb for myself. Time to hit the simulator/good winter project.
tom stickney
Sep 2, 2014 at 11:31 pm
Everyone is different….it’s a feel thing
John
Sep 2, 2014 at 7:17 pm
Something I noticed when you do this is I get a bit of a fade as a result of the club being held a fraction more toe down. Something to keep in mind. At first I thought I was putting a different swing on it, but it was happening too consistently to put down to anything else. It’s not a huge difference, but definitely a few yards.
tom stickney
Sep 2, 2014 at 11:31 pm
It can hang a touch if you are not careful
John
Sep 2, 2014 at 7:09 pm
I have found recently when I choke up on the club a 1/2 to 1 inch and take my stock swing, I almost always hit the ball more solid and consequently farther! The whole smash factor thing. Now I am consciously aware that I am taking my stock swing so I definitely believe your advice to be quite sound. So, I’ll either shorten my clubs (duh) or choke down a little farther and allow a smoother, shorter swing to happen. Thanks for the article. Simple and easy implement.
Tom Stickney
Sep 3, 2014 at 9:50 am
Centered impact is the key!
Ken
Sep 2, 2014 at 7:08 pm
Great article. Personally, I like to use the term ‘Grip Down,’ rather than ‘Choke Up.’ Just hate that “C” word.
tom stickney
Sep 2, 2014 at 11:33 pm
The word “choke” has no power unless you allow it to conjure up bad thoughts
Peter Klemperer
Sep 2, 2014 at 6:01 pm
I’ve been doing this with my wedges on the advice of the Pelz book. Now I’ll do it with all my irons. Might even mark the yardages on the shafts!
Thanks for doing this great work.
Tom Stickney
Sep 2, 2014 at 6:42 pm
My pleasure
Teaj
Sep 2, 2014 at 4:51 pm
Great idea for those back pin placements that want the ball to roll out a little more. need to go find me a launch monitor to compare the choked down swing to the stock.
Tom Stickney
Sep 2, 2014 at 5:44 pm
Thx
kevin
Sep 2, 2014 at 4:24 pm
when you do choke down, you will have a tendency to hook the ball if adjustment to tempo and swingweight isn’t made. i usually open up the clubface just a touch.
ABgolfer2
Sep 2, 2014 at 5:31 pm
@ kevin – maybe that’s why he suggests choking up?
Tom Stickney
Sep 2, 2014 at 5:45 pm
Whatever works!
Tom Stickney
Sep 2, 2014 at 6:43 pm
Different for everyone
Jason
Sep 2, 2014 at 4:16 pm
Thanks for the information, it’s pretty enlightening since I seem to struggle with those in between shots. I’m fairly inconsistent with my decision as to how to hit that in between shot. Sometimes, I’ll play a draw/fade to adjust a couple of yards, and other times I’ll use an easier swing. The easier swings never works of course!
Did you notice anything while you were performing this test around the swing weight and lie angle of the club? I know the clubhead would feel quite a bit lighter when choking down–did it have a noticeable affect on the swing? Also, I think the lie angle would get out of whack when choking down. Did you notice any issues with that?
Tom Stickney
Sep 2, 2014 at 5:46 pm
Not really
Desmond
Sep 3, 2014 at 9:28 am
If you are inconsistent with your decision, your shots will show it. You see Touring Pros grip down all the time without negative effect.
Be confident, maintain a good rhythm.
tom stickney
Sep 3, 2014 at 12:09 pm
It’s all about practice…after a few shots you will easily be able to control the face a touch
Jeremy
Sep 2, 2014 at 3:59 pm
Semantics aside, the data you’ve provided is great and will definitely help the decision-making process in the future. It’d be interesting to see the results of “going for it” with an 8-iron as well. Thanks!
Tom Stickney
Sep 2, 2014 at 5:46 pm
Thx sir
Mike
Sep 2, 2014 at 3:58 pm
Glad to see I’m making the first rational comment/question…
Tom, do you recommend people actually marking up their grips so they grip in the same location every time?
Tom Stickney
Sep 2, 2014 at 5:45 pm
Good idea.
Dan
Sep 2, 2014 at 3:34 pm
I think the term “choking down” makes more sense here. I know it’s arguing semantics but I honestly clicked on your link because I thought you might have been introducing some new swing thought. You choke down on an iron/wood, with your hands becoming closer to the club head and moving down towards the ground. You choke up on a baseball bat because of the vertical position of the bat in your normal stance, completely opposite of the starting position of your golf club.
Tom Stickney
Sep 2, 2014 at 3:49 pm
Whatever. Just enjoy the tip.
Knobbywood
Sep 6, 2014 at 10:21 am
Haha Tom maintain your dignity like the professional we all know you are… There will always be people like this and they don’t merit a response from a respected instructor like yourself… Keep up the good work you are my favorite writer on this blog
Tom Stickney
Sep 7, 2014 at 12:00 am
Thx sir. Appreciate your thoughts.
sebastian
Sep 2, 2014 at 8:08 pm
….that guy
Joe
Sep 3, 2014 at 1:33 am
Dork.
Desmond
Sep 2, 2014 at 3:08 pm
The term should really be “grip down”.
You do not want to use the term “choke” in any endeavor… especially golf.
“Grip Down” also makes sense.
Tom Stickney
Sep 2, 2014 at 3:14 pm
I make sure I choke the club…tells it who’s the boss!
Jeff B
Sep 2, 2014 at 7:29 pm
This comment wins.
Desmond
Sep 3, 2014 at 12:39 am
Funny, I think “choking up” is confusing when you’re gripping down. I prefer the “golf whisperer” approach with my clubs, instead of violence against them.
Tom Stickney
Sep 3, 2014 at 9:51 am
Ha ha.
Knobbywood
Sep 8, 2014 at 10:05 am
Man I’d hate to work for you Desmond! Never satisfied… First it was don’t say choke, now it’s say up not down… Obviously you understand the concept so just shut up and go play… No need for your semantic criticisms