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Opinion & Analysis

Can Spieth follow in Rory’s footsteps?

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It’s that time of year again—a strange period where Tiger Woods’ unofficial 18-man event carries nearly as much clout in the World Golf Rankings as his own actual PGA Tour tournament in July.

So thank goodness Jordan Spieth decided to set the world ablaze.

The 21-year-old, the butt of thousands of drinking age jokes (seriously it got really annoying), stormed his way to victory at the Australian Open, posting a final-round 63 in breezy conditions to finish six shots ahead. And then of course there was the encore at Woods’ close get-together, where Spieth smoked the host by 26 shots, and everybody else by at least 10.

The American wunderkind has the golf world buzzing. Already considered a future flag bearer for the United States, Spieth and his recent results have left the golf establishment yearning for 2015 to see what this Texas boy wonder can do next.

And with some believing majors will be in his near future, an important question has started to pop up: Will Spieth’s upcoming season roughly match Rory McIlroy’s sensational 2014?

On the outset, it’s not an unjustified inquiry based on these recent events. The round of the year could very well be that 63. And Spieth’s total victory margin of 16 in consecutive weeks is a feat Woods himself has only reached twice.

But the question is presumptuous. It assumes that Spieth holds a real possibility of matching McIlroy’s recent exploits, when the truth is that the chances are exceedingly unlikely.

That’s right, the precious young American is, in essence, a long shot to follow in McIlroy’s 2014 footsteps. And there’s an ample view to see why.

For one, the increased hype hasn’t been entirely organic. Sure, the actual dominance of these two performances of course factored heavily into the rising expectations, but there’s no doubt the similarities between McIlroy’s end to 2013 and Spieth’s recent surge–namely their winning the Australian Open following disappointing seasons in the public eye–also aided in this production. Spieth was asked about this similarity in his post-tournament press conference in Australia, and some writers have brought it up since. And it serves no purpose but to add phony fuel to the Spieth expectation machine for 2015. It’s a downright lazy way to foster support for Spieth 2015, as any matching facts between McIlroy’s and Spieth’s Aussie victories are pure coincidences, not portenders of the latter’s future performance.

As for those dominating performances, let’s be realistic about the true nature of these tournaments. The Australian Open contains big names at the top, but little overall depth. And Woods’ event, while boasting a strong field, is a relaxed atmosphere with its unofficial status, contains less than 20 competitors and is in a spot in December when golfer motivation is alarmingly low. These were still impressive performances with extraordinary winning margins, but when you shine the light closer these weren’t exactly world-class events Spieth stormed through.

All of this brings more of a realistic shade to those 2015 ambitions, but to truly comprehend Spieth’s long odds, we have to understand just how special McIlroy’s 2014 campaign turned out. No, it’s not an all-time great season—Tiger has at least a few himself that he could say were better—but the numbers are staggering. In 24 total events, four wins, including two majors and the European Tour’s flagship event, 17 top-10s—a few admittedly backdoor—and one lone finish outside of the top-25. The wins, and the magnitude of the triumphs, are what catch the headlines, (and deservedly so), but the lack of truly disastrous results adds worth to the season’s value.

As Alex Myers noted, McIlroy went a whole year in golf and had one truly bad week. That’s incredible.

McIlroy posted this set of performances at 25, while Spieth must strive for those marks as he enters his age-21 season—a near impossible proposition.

Over the past 40 years, no single 21-year-old has put together a season that is an undisputed equal of what McIlroy pieced out in 2014. Woods and Seve Ballesteros are the only two who can claim age-21 seasons that “roughly match” Rory’s 2014—Woods with his four wins and one major in 1997 and Ballesteros with a five-win campaign in 1978. Otherwise nothing comes close to the McIlroy 2014 standard we are looking to reach here.

The next best seasons in this time span belong to Sergio Garcia (three wins, 11 top-10s in 2001), Adam Scott (two wins, nine top-10s in 2002) and Robert Gamez (two wins in 1990). While excellent campaigns from this trio, these don’t quite fit the criteria.

The picking here is slim then, with those age-21 players accomplishing roughly matching seasons to McIlroy 2014 once every 20 years. And the players on the outer section of the orbit are just as pared down.

If anybody could crack into this 21 group, namely the Woods-Ballesteros section, Spieth, based on his talent, is near the top of the list. But he would have to accomplish something that is done basically once every generation, a daunting task even for a player of Spieth’s ability.

And there’s a common theme among this quintet of 21-year-old achievers: They were all long drivers at the time of the season in question—with Woods and Ballesteros at the very top in this category.

That is probably not a coincidence.

Experience is a tough factor to measure in a golfer’s performance, but at age 21 every player lacks it to a large degree, and that deficiency likely hampers any young gun on the course. The long ball is the main way to overcome this disadvantage youth presents—course knowledge and strategy are overrated when you can hit your approach from 30 yards closer—and if you can’t pipe it deep, the trail to early domination becomes a lot more perilous.

Spieth is not a long-hitter by Tour standards, and is of course nowhere near Ballesteros-Woods. The 21-year-old is decidedly average in distance, finishing 89th in the category among 177 qualifying PGA Tour players in 2014 and 80th in a set of 180 the previous season.

All of this presents him another significant obstacle in soaring to Rory-like heights in 2014. Not only must the Texan pull off a once-in-a-generation feat, he has to do so while lacking a main attribute of all the previous men who accomplished something special at age 21.

Matters aren’t looking too good then in trying to reach the McIlroy standard.

Spieth no doubt has a bright future in this game, and at the very least his floor in 2015, and going forward, will be quite high. His game is as all-around as it gets, a circumstance that should shield him from any truly abysmal seasons.

The McIlroy-like visions may not be met, but Spieth’s 2015 won’t be an absolute bust.

With the 21-year-old, the expectations should be high, but fans and media tend to get carried away with this American darling.

Following a rookie year in which he became the youngest winner on the PGA Tour since the 1930s, Spieth was considered a closer. A year later, losing efforts at the Masters and Players Championship were enough to convince observers to flip-flop and call Spieth “the great player who couldn’t close.”

It’s fair to anticipate another victory or two from Spieth in 2015; a major might easily be there for the taking as well. But there’s no need to panic if he doesn’t win, and it’s especially useless to fret if his season doesn’t come close to resembling the success of McIlroy’s 2014.

Spieth is for sure the leader of the American revolution in the professional level, just don’t expect it to be a short battle.

Kevin's fascination with the game goes back as long as he can remember. He has written about the sport on the junior, college and professional levels and hopes to cover its proceedings in some capacity for as long as possible. His main area of expertise is the PGA Tour, which is his primary focus for GolfWRX. Kevin is currently a student at Northwestern University, but he will be out into the workforce soon enough. You can find his golf tidbits and other sports-related babble on Twitter @KevinCasey19. GolfWRX Writer of the Month: September 2014

21 Comments

21 Comments

  1. Golfraven

    Dec 17, 2014 at 3:11 pm

    Sorry but saying Jordan will not be a true champion because of his lenght is pure nonsense. What makes him a champion already is his dedication, integrity and respect for his team, other players and the game. He certainly figered it out at an age earlier to Rory. Yeah he is sometimes bold in his interviews but this is just hishonesty and confidence – nothing wrong about that, he knows what he wants. Want to see more players of his class. Go on Jordan, don’t be a Tiger!

  2. Golfraven

    Dec 17, 2014 at 2:57 pm

    OK this may be controversial but I say it, Jordan will win his first green jacket before Rory. Its his time. Like both players and both would be in my dream foursome flight. Both will be leading next ‘Big Three’ generation of players – I cannot decide on the 3rd player at this time (maybe Ricky). Looking forward to see Rors and Jordan competing. Just hope Jordan will not join Nike – that would kill it for me.

    • Ponjo

      Dec 25, 2014 at 3:05 am

      HaHa. So playing NIke clubs would ruin it for you how exactly.

  3. Tom Earls

    Dec 17, 2014 at 12:01 pm

    I would like a little less speculation on who is the next world #1. I like golf. I don’t need to know who is number 1 by some pointg system. They’re all good, and entertaining. The mistake you al make covering golf is focusing on 2 or 3 golfers who are at the top. The following week 6 other guys lead the tournament on Friday and Saturday and the fans have never heard of them, and the announceres are left wondering who is this guy and why isn’t Tiger playing the weekend. Cover them all. At leaset the top 30 or so so when the weekend comes we have at least heard of the leaders.

    Thanks.

    Tom

  4. Jonny B

    Dec 17, 2014 at 10:14 am

    Great picture for this article. I think we really could be on the brink of a special rivalry (or chivalry) with these two young guys. Both are incredibly talented. The picture reminds me of Palmer (Spieth) and Player (McIlroy). One of the great rivalries in the history of the game.

  5. j.a.

    Dec 16, 2014 at 6:40 am

    Jordan Spieth is in a different category than Rory. He plays the precision game. He might go a par 4 with driver an a 9 iron instead driver and a wedge but for sure, that 7 iron will send the ball to where he can secure birdies. Mathematics are simple, a 400m par 4 equals 300m + 100m or 250m + 150m. Moreover, his putting is outstanding.

    He might had a beer or two legally while in Australia and something else to celebrate the Aussie Open victory. He’s more than welcome Down Under and I look forward to see him in person again. He will have a great 2015 and beyond.

  6. dapadre

    Dec 16, 2014 at 6:34 am

    Only time will tell, but the kid has MASSIVE game. If you compare him at his age vs Rors, he was CERTAINLY BETTER. One thing i love about him is he really wants it. He has that Tiger ferociousness which Rors doesnt have. Not saying its bad but I get the felling for Rors everything doesnt revolve around golf but for Spieth it seems to. For those saying he wont win because of length, agree length is very important but we have seen many past players that werent that long that did very well.

  7. Mark

    Dec 16, 2014 at 2:37 am

    I a word “No”. Spieth is a fine player but is not in the same league as Rory. Not long enough to dominate the modern game.

    • jgpl001

      Dec 16, 2014 at 5:35 pm

      Totally agree

      He is a fine player, a great putter, and will win loads of tournaments, but Rory is in a totally different league, totally different

  8. marcel

    Dec 16, 2014 at 12:34 am

    he can sign up with Horizon and then break contract and sue them. otherwise boy has no chance to replicate Rory

  9. j

    Dec 15, 2014 at 9:36 pm

    “backdoor” top 10. seriously, just because you play well the last day you want to call it a backdoor top 10. you play four days and if you get a top 10 it doesn’t matter how you do it. last time i checked a 65 still counts as 65 on Sunday just as much as it does on any other day. Playing hard on Sunday even when you don’t have a chance to win is a sign of a true competitor, especially for the truly elite players like Tiger, Phil, Rory, etc who judge their years based on victories. It would be much easier to just mail it in and get it to the house and get outta Dodge but Rory plays hard on Sunday. Calling it a backdoor top 10 makes it sound less impressive than it actually is. I guess next time someone takes a 2 shot lead into the final round and shoots 74 to tie for 8th you can call him and congratulate him on his “frontdoor” top 10. Either way you still have to beat the whole field except for around 10 or less people which is great golf.

  10. Mike

    Dec 15, 2014 at 8:30 pm

    No

  11. Scotty

    Dec 15, 2014 at 11:24 am

    Wow I can’t believe I keep hearing ” he hits it too short ”

    He just wont by 10 shots on islesworth which is extremely long and difficult

    Jordan hits itg plenty long and only 21 plus he can bulk up just like rory in 6 months if he wanted to

    He is not “as good” as rory mcilroy but can hold is own and will win 5+ majors for sure

    Just my two cents

    • Pat

      Dec 15, 2014 at 1:39 pm

      That’s because he’s average off the tee distance wise. Not very accurate either. Kid has a good short game though to make up for his short comings. He doesn’t have nearly the talent and length that McIlroy does and when it’s all said and done, he won’t have nearly as many wins period.

  12. Jadon

    Dec 15, 2014 at 11:21 am

    Spieth is a monster. We love our Texas boy.

  13. bradford

    Dec 15, 2014 at 11:11 am

    While I’d love to be proven wrong, it’s unlikely Rory’s 2015 will match his own 2014.

  14. Jake Anderson

    Dec 15, 2014 at 10:52 am

    Very correctly analyzed. Spieth hits it too short to be a true champion.

    • Jimmeh

      Dec 15, 2014 at 12:46 pm

      Luke Donald 2011 might want a say here…

      • AndyB

        Dec 15, 2014 at 7:32 pm

        Luke Donald has never won a major, and I have major money saying he never will. Length will keep Spieth from dominating in the majors and winning more than 2-3 in his career. He will be a good player with great moments for years to come, but he will not be on Rory’s level.

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Opinion & Analysis

Brandel Chamblee PGA Championship Q&A: Rose’s huge McLaren risk, distracted LIV pros and why Aronimink suits the bombers

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PGA Championship week is here, and Brandel Chamblee did not hold back in our latest discussion ahead of the season’s second major.

In our 2026 PGA Championship Q&A, golf’s leading analyst made the case that PIF pulling LIV’s funding has left its players competing in a state of confusion, called Justin Rose’s mid-season equipment switch a huge risk at 45, and explained why Aronimink will be a bombers’ delight this week.

Check out the full Q&A below.

Gianni: With the PIF confirming that they’re pulling funding from LIV at the end of the season, what impact do you expect that to have on the LIV players competing at the PGA Championship?

Brandel: I would imagine that they have all been thrown into a state of confusion, and will be distracted, not knowing where they are going to play next year and not knowing exactly their road back to either the DP World Tour or the PGA Tour. Or in Rahm’s case, being tied to a sinking ship for the next few years, likely playing for pennies on the dollar in events that no one cares about or watches.

I doubt this would put him in the best frame of mind to compete at his highest level. Keeping in mind, however, that majors are the only time that LIV disciples get to play in events that matter, so never disregard the motivation they have to prove to the world they are still relevant.

Gianni: Justin Rose switched to McLaren Golf equipment mid-season while playing some of the best golf of his career. What do you make of the change?

Brandel: I don’t really know what to make of Rose switching equipment. It seems a huge risk on his part, even though it is likely, in my opinion, that the clubs he’s playing are similar, if not the exact grinds, to what he was playing previously, with a McLaren stamp on them.

Having said that, at best, it is a distraction when he seemed to be as dialed in with his game as any 45-year-old could be and trending in the majors to perhaps do something that would definitely put him in the Hall of Fame. At worst, given the possibility that these clubs aren’t just duplicates of his old set stamped with McLaren on them, he’s made an equipment change that would take time, and 45-year-old athletes don’t have the time to do such things.

Gianni: Aronimink has only hosted a handful of professional events since it hosted the 1962 PGA Championship. What kind of test does it present, and does a course with less recent major championship history tend to level the playing field?

Brandel: Even though Aronimink has only hosted a handful of meaningful professional events, it has been fairly discerning in who can win there. When Keegan Bradley won the BMW Championship on the Donald Ross masterpiece in 2018, he was the 2nd best iron player on tour coming into that week. When Nick Watney won the AT&T at Aronimink in 2011, he was 2nd in strokes gained total coming into the week.

In 2020, Aronimink hosted the KPMG Championship, and Sei Young Kim won. On the LPGA that year, she was first in greens in regulation, putts per green in regulation, and scoring average on the way to being the LPGA player of the year. And then there is the 1962 PGA Championship won by Gary Player, who eventually became just one of a few players to win the career grand slam on the way to winning 9 majors. It is a formidable test, and if it’s not softened by rain, it will bring out the best in the upper echelons of the game.

Gianni: Is there a specific hole at Aronimink that you think will do the most to decide the winner?

Brandel: The hardest hole at Aronimink in each of the three tour events that have been played there since 2010 has been the long par-3 8th hole, with the par-4 10th being the second hardest, so most of the carnage will happen around the turn, but with the par-5 16th offering opportunities for bold plays and the tough closing holes at 17 and 18, the finish is likely to be frenetic.

Gianni: The PGA Championship has always sat in the shadow of the other majors. What does the ideal PGA Championship look like in your eyes, and what would it take for it to carve out its own identity?

Brandel: The PGA Championship, to whatever degree it suffers from the comparison to the other three majors, is still counted just as much when adding them up at the end of one’s career. Almost 1/3 of Nicklaus’ major wins were the five PGA Championships he won. Walter Hagen won 11 majors, five of which were PGA Championships.

Tiger Woods twice in his career won back-to-back PGA Championships, and those four majors count just as much as the other 11 he won. The PGA may not have the prestige of the other three, but it carries the same weight. Having said that, I preferred the identity that it had as the last major of the year.

Gianni: You nailed your Masters picks. Rory won, Scottie finished solo second, and Morikawa surged to a tie for seventh. Who are your top 3 picks for the PGA Championship and why?

Brandel: I am not a huge fan of majors played on golf courses that have been shorn of most of the trees, although I understand some of the agronomic reasons for doing so and of course the ease with which it allows members to play after errant drives. However, at the highest level, it all but eliminates any strategy off the tee and turns professional golf into an even bigger slugfest. That means that it will likely be a bomber’s delight this week, but fortunately, Scottie Scheffler is long enough to play that game and straight enough to play it better than anyone else.

The major championships give us very few surprises anymore, going back to the beginning of 2012, so the last 57 majors played, the average world rank of the winners has been better than 15th in the world. So look at the highest ranked and longest drivers who are on form coming into the PGA Championship who also have great short games as the surrounds at Aronimink are very challenging. That’s Scottie Scheffler by a mile and then McIlroy and Cameron Young with a far bigger nod towards DeChambeau than I gave him at the Masters.

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Club Junkie

A putter that I love and hate – Club Junkie Podcast

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In this episode of the Club Junkie Podcast, we dive into one of the most interesting flatstick releases of the year with a full review of the new TaylorMade SYSTM 2 putters. After spending time on the greens, I break down what makes this design stand out, where it performs, and why it has me completely torn between loving it and fighting it. If you are into feel, alignment, and consistency, this is one you will want to hear about.

We also take a look at some of the putters in play on the PGA Tour last week. From familiar favorites to a few surprising setups, there is always something to learn from what the best players in the world are rolling with under pressure.

To wrap things up, I walk through the process of building a set of JP Golf Prime irons paired with Baddazz Gold Series shafts. From component selection to performance goals, this is a deep dive into what goes into creating a unique custom set and why this combo has been so intriguing.

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Opinion & Analysis

From 14 handicap to pro: 4 things I’d tell golfers at 50

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This year my 50th birthday. Gosh, where has the time gone?

As a teenager in rural Missouri, some of my junior high and high school years felt interminable. Graduation seemed light years away. But the older I get, the faster life seems to fly by.

I’m also increasingly aware of my mortality. My dad died recently. Earlier this year, a friend and fellow PGA of America professional and I were texting about our next catch-up. The next message I received was news of his unexpected passing at 48. Shortly after, a woman I dated in college succumbed to cancer at 51.

Certainly, one can share perspective at any age. Seniors help freshmen, veterans guide rookies. But reaching this milestone feels like as good a time as any to do one of those “what would I tell my younger self?” articles.

I’ve had a uniquely varied career in golf. I started as a 27-year-old, average-length-hitting, 14-handicap computer engineer and somehow managed to turn pro before running out of money, constantly bootstrapping my way forward. I’ve won qualifiers and set venue records in the World Long Drive Championships, finished fifth at the Speedgolf World Championships, coached all skill levels as a PGA of America professional, built industry-leading swing speed training programs for Swing Man Golf, helped advance the single-length iron market with Sterling Irons®, caddied on the PGA TOUR and PGA TOUR Champions, and played about 300 courses across 32 countries.

It’s been a ride, and I’ve gone both deep and wide.

So while I can consult and advise from a lot of angles, let me keep it to a few things I’d tell the average golfer who wants to improve.

1. Think About What You Want

Everyone has their own reason for picking up a golf club.

Oddly, as a professional athlete, I’m not internally driven by competition. That can be challenging, as the industry currently prioritizes and incentivizes competition over the love of the game.

For me, I love walking and being outdoors. Nature helps balance my energy. I prefer courses that are integrated into the natural beauty of their surroundings. I’m comfortable practicing alone. I’m a deep thinker, and I genuinely enjoy investigating the game, using data and intuition to unearth unique, often innovative insights. I’m fortunate to be strong and athletic, so I appreciate the chance to engage with my abilities. Traveling feels adventurous. I could go on.

You don’t have to overthink it like I do. For you, it might be as simple as hitting balls to escape work, hanging out with friends, and playing loosely with the rules and the score.

The point is to give yourself permission to play for your own reasons, and let that be enough.

But if improvement is your goal, thinking about your destination—and when you want to get there—is important, because it dictates the steps you need to take. When I set out to go from a 14-handicap to the PGA TOUR as quickly as possible, the steps I needed were very different from those of a working golfer trying to break 90 in six months. That’s also different from someone who just wants a few peaceful hours outside each week, away from work or family.

None of these goals are better than the others, but each requires a different plan that you can work backward from.

2. There Are Lots of Things That Can Work

One of the challenges of golf is that, although there are rules for playing, there aren’t clear, industry-wide standards for how to best play the game. There’s a lot of gray area.

You might hear a top coach or trainer insist that a certain move is the best way to swing or train. Then you dig a bit deeper and, much to your confusion and frustration, another respected coach or trainer says something completely different. I don’t think anyone is trying to confuse you—at least I hope not. It’s just where the industry is right now.

You have to be careful with advice from tournament pros, too. They might be great at scoring, but they’re also human and sometimes just as susceptible as amateurs to believing things that don’t really move the needle. Tour players might describe what they feel, but that’s not always what they’re actually doing when assessed with technology.

I recently ran a test on my YouTube channel (which connects to my GolfWRX article “How to use your hands in the golf swing for power and accuracy”), and, interestingly, two of the most commonly taught hand actions produced the worst results in the test.

Coaches can certainly help. If you find someone you connect with to help navigate, that’s great. But there are many ways to get the ball in the hole. In the current landscape, you may need to seek multiple opinions, think critically, and use your own intuition to discern what seems true and whose advice resonates with you.

I’d recommend seeking someone who is open-minded and always learning, because things constantly change. Absolutes like “correct” or “proper” should raise a red flag. AI can be useful, but it tends to confidently repeat popular advice, so proceed with caution.

3. Get Custom Fit

If you’re serious about becoming a better player, getting custom fit is hugely important. There’s no sense fighting your equipment if you don’t have to. Most better players get fit these days and, if they don’t, they’re usually skilled enough to work around clubs that aren’t ideal.

If you plan to play for a long time, it’s worth spending a little more upfront to get something that truly fits you and your game, rather than continually buying and discarding equipment.

Equipment rules haven’t really changed significantly since the early 2000s. To stay in business, manufacturers keep pushing those limits. If you pull a bunch of clubs and balls off the rack and test them, you’ll find differences. I’ve tested two new drivers and seen a 30-yard total distance gap. Usually, the issue isn’t bad equipment; it’s that the combination of components simply isn’t the best fit.

It’s like wearing a new pair of floppy clown shoes. Sure, they’re shoes—but you won’t sprint your best in them compared to track shoes that fit perfectly.

Be wary of what’s called custom fitting, too. Sometimes the term is used as a marketing strategy rather than an actual fitting. In some retail settings, fitters may be incentivized to steer you toward higher-priced components. That doesn’t automatically mean it’s not the best fit, but you should be aware of potential biases.

I learned a version of this lesson outside of golf. Years ago, I bought a tennis racquet at a big box store from a seemingly knowledgeable employee who thought it would suit me best. The racquet gave me tennis elbow, and I spent months recovering with rest and acupuncture. The next season, I invested more time and money to find what actually fit me, and I walked away with something amazing that I still play with years later.

So if you’re going to get fit, be smart about it.

Find someone you believe has deep knowledge—possibly with certifications, but not necessarily. Make sure there’s a wide inventory across many brands. Check recent reviews for the individual fitter if possible. Make sure you trust that the fitter has your best interests at heart. If they’re wearing a hat or shirt with a specific brand’s logo, proceed with caution. Unless you specifically want a certain brand or look, be wary of upsells, especially if two options perform nearly the same.

Also, while golf is called a sport of integrity, there’s a thread of manipulation in the industry. I once drafted an equipment article for an industry magazine, structured just like one of their previous popular stories, with matching word count and great photos. The assistant editor loved it; it was useful to readers and required little work on his part. But the editor-in-chief nixed the story. When I asked why, I was told it was because I wasn’t an advertiser. It turned out the article I’d modeled mine after was a paid ad cleverly disguised as editorial content.

I really dislike games, clickbait, and fear-based manipulation. I hope this changes, but golfers deserve to know it exists.

4. Distance and Strategy Matter

There’s a real relationship between how far you hit the ball and your scoring average, even at the PGA TOUR level.

I experienced this early in my pro career. I started as a power hitter, swinging in the high 120s and breaking 200 mph ball speed with a stock driver.

Back then, some instructors advised swinging at 80%, so I tried slowing down for more accuracy. That worked fine on shorter, tighter courses. But on longer setups, I was coming into greens with too much club, and par 5s stopped being

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